My little girl is sick - help!

[ZGT Mummy]

OK so my DD has been sick for a few days now. It started with a runny nose, then got worse so that she couldn't breathe or feed very well, then the little cough started, then the cough built up to the point where now it's really chesty and her breathing is a little wheezy. Now today she started a wee bit warm and tonight she has a fever. I'm not sure how high as I've not bothered to measure it but I would estimate around 38-39, with bright red wee cheeks. She's all full up on mucous, she finally had a good feed this afternoon but got all tied up with mucous and threw it all up again :(

I feel so totally ill-equiped for this. I don't know what I should be giving her or not, and what I should be doing for her.

She is 5 months old so exclusively BF, so obviously I let her have nibbles whenever she likes, though feeding has always been an issue for us (got another thread on that one!!) so I offer her a feed at least 2 hourly unless she's asleep, just to make sure she's hydrated. But because she's been full of snot and mucous she's not been able to feed properly for a couple of days now. She's so skinny already but just in the last day I swear it looks like she's neglected :(

So apart from regular little sips of BM, I'm also giving her some Kiwiherb tonic called de-stuff which has echinacea, elderflower and ribwort. I think this is working as this evening she's not so snotty, her nose seems a bit "drier". I've also been trying to give her echinacea/thuja comp but it doesn't taste that great and she's been gagging on it and it's been coming back out with all the mucous. I did give her a wee pinch of SA today, though I'm a bit hesitant with that one as I'm still not 100% on the allergen status of the particular brand I have as they won't get back to me and I can't find another brand!

I had been giving her ABC but just today she's been crying out after she coughs so I think her throat is really sore and seeing as the ABC is in ethanol I don't want to give her that right now as it'll just hurt her throat even more (I got it on my fingers that are dry and cracked a boy it stung like mad!!!).

What can I give her for her throat, fever, bugs in general etc etc.

Is there a point at which I should go to my GP with her?

She's really miserable and definitely NOT herself at all today. This afternoon right through to tonight, she's basically been falling asleep in our arms and only being awake for less than 1 hour (usually she's awake for nearly 2 hours at a time) before she's dropping off again (she's normally too alert and nosey to fall asleep in our arms, she has to go to bed to go to sleep). Definitely very out of character at the moment which is worrying me a little......

I guess while I was confident to nurse my older boys through their bugs I have no confidence with my precious little baby girl (not to say my boys aren't precious but they're older and....well.....they're boys!!!).

Any and all help appreciated.

[ZGT Mummy]

Oh, I forgot to add that what I'm most concerned about is secondary infection, chest infection, pneumonia etc. How do I know if it's gone into her chest (or should I take her to the dr to check this) and what do I do if it has. Obivously dr will prescribe antibiotics which I am VERY against her having. But then I don't want to muck around with pneumonia do I!!!

[3monkeys]

do you have a vaporiser? If so, use it. If not, do you have a crock pot? If you do fill it and put it on in her room. the steam will keep her nasal passages clearer. Honestly the difference with a vapourise compared to without is incredible.

Do you have a chest rub? I use the Weleda one, or vicks. I used full strenght vicks on the kids, but I would put a layer of vaseline on first. Or the baby vicks. Can you drip saline into her nose before you feed her. She will hate it but it will help clear the nasal passages. Often a phlemy throat will sound chesty even when its not. You will know chesty, it just sounds soooooo much deeper. And breastfeeding is the best thing you can do for her.

I def wouldnt give her pamol.

If she has a fever etc then she will be sleepy and out of character. Its all part and parcel with feeling like crap. And I get that you worry. I worry when my kids get sick too. But have faith that she can fight this, you just need to let her and give her the tools to help her.

[Barefoot]

Stop all mucus forming foods such as wheat from the diet.
use things like garlic, onions, cayenne pepper, honey and lemons, olive leaf extract.
The best lung herbs are lobellia and mullein leaves IMO but follow the recomended doses for a child as one has to be careful with lobellia.
Even chewing onions give instant sinus relief i have found.

Use the link to find a homeopathic remedy
http://abchomeopathy.com/go.php

Consider a nebulizer as they useful for getting things like ozonated water and colloidal silver right to the problem in the lungs.
I bought one a few years ago for a chronic cough i had and after nebulizing CS and Ozonated water i was better after about 4 days.

[ZGT Mummy]

Thanks for your quick replies.


do you have a vaporiser? If so, use it. If not, do you have a crock pot? If you do fill it and put it on in her room. the steam will keep her nasal passages clearer. Honestly the difference with a vapourise compared to without is incredible.

Do you have a chest rub? I use the Weleda one, or vicks. I used full strenght vicks on the kids, but I would put a layer of vaseline on first. Or the baby vicks. Can you drip saline into her nose before you feed her. She will hate it but it will help clear the nasal passages. Often a phlemy throat will sound chesty even when its not. You will know chesty, it just sounds soooooo much deeper. And breastfeeding is the best thing you can do for her.

Yes we have a vapouriser which has been going day and night since Friday night now (I'm sure our furnishings are now laden with water, great for the dust mites!!!), plus I've been putting eucalyptus oil in the vapouriser too. Plus we've been putting her in the bathroom when we've had showers etc.

I do have Vicks but am loathe to use it as it has coconut in it and we're an allergy family. I might try to get to the health shop tomorrow and have a look at the Weleda one (but catch 22, I don't want to drag her out in the cold and rain!).


I def wouldnt give her pamol.

Don't want to and won't as I'm more worried about secondary infection/pneumonia type stuff which pamol won't help with anyway!!!


Stop all mucus forming foods such as wheat from the diet.
use things like garlic, onions, cayenne pepper, honey and lemons, olive leaf extract.

She's not on solids and I'm on a restricted diet so no wheat here. I had a big dose of onion and garlic with dinner tonight so hopefully some of that gets through to her. Does any of the other stuff get through, i.e. if I have a lemon honey drink will she get the benefits through my milk?

Any opinions on when to seek conventional medical help?

[3monkeys]

As far as conventional medical help the only advice I can give is to listen to your instincts. Its all good and well for me to sit here in my arm chair and tell you what to do, but you are the one who is living with it and dealing with it so ultimately you need to trust yourself. Sounds like you are doing a great job BTW.

[gilima]

i just wanted to add that using saline nose drops or spray ( you can make your own or buy. I use one called xlear with zylitol.) together with a bulb aspirator, they make those little ones especially for babies can really help with clearing out the mucous before feeding. first squirt the saline then use the bulb aspi and after that I like to squirt some breast milk in the nostrils and .....voila...should clear her up enough to feed anyhow. also keeping her somewhat upright . continue to count diapers so you will know whether she is getting enough breastmilk. I hope she feels better soon, sounds like you are doing all good things.

[magical1]

Don't use vicks on your baby. I remember hearing this so went and googled it and this was the first article I found.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1384774/vicks_vaporub_can_be_dangerous_for.html?cat=5

Here is a simple homemade alternative.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRADdTU2dDw&feature=channel_page

[ZGT Mummy]

Thanks all. She was awful when she woke up this morning and hadn't fed through the night at all - she normally feeds at least once through the night - but I did manage to get a little BM into her.

She's just gone down for a nap now and she does seem a little cooler so it looks like the fever may be dying down, for now anyway!

Yes I forgot to mention that I'm also doing the saline spray and the aspirator but didn't know about dropping some BM up the nose, might give that a go too.

She does seem like she wants to have a feed (which I've not really seen before lol!!) but as soon as she tries and gets all tied up with the mucous and snot she gives up, poor little thing!

Magical1 I thought I'd heard something about Vicks too which is why I haven't used it for a couple of years now, plus the allergy thing with the coconut!

Interesting though that it talks about menthol being the possible culprit, some of the vapouriser oils I use have menthol in them, so does Karvol I believe which I have used before. The oil I am using at the moment doesn't though. It's Vicks branded but just has eucalyptus, peppermint, wintergreen and lavender.

I might get down to the health shop today if her fever has broken and have a look for some Weleda stuff I think. I'll have a look at that You Tube recipe for the homemade one when I'm on the other computer as this one doesn't have speakers!

Thanks all, I'm feeling a little more confident today and I guess it's not really about how sick she is or how she's coping, more about me and my ability to just allow her body to deal with it in it's own way and own time!

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Great advice generally,.. here.

Yeah, not the vicks.

The thing is, if you do things like clearing her nose before you feed, then she will feed, and her immune system will do the rest.

that is, after all, what it's designed for. Think how the world managed before all these things :D

[ZGT Mummy]

OK so saw a dr yesterday and she has bronchiolitis :( I'm not sure what end of it she's at, one minute she seems to be better, the next she's worse again. No more fever, not much mucous anymore but the rasping, hacking cough is there and it does sound very chesty :(

Obviously I don't want it getting worse as I suspect if it does then it's off to the hospital for steroids?

Is there anything I can do for her? At the moment I'm giving her a large pinch of SA a couple of times a day, still giving her the echinacea/thuja comp that all the kids get daily and I've got a kids chest tonic from my naturopath which is echinacea, white horehound, thyme, peppermint and licorice. It also has some honey in it.

The problem with all that is that whilst I try to give it to her, she doesn't necessarily take it! A lot of it is spat back out, so not exactly sure how much she's getting.

Really I just want to know what I can do to stop it going further so that we don't end up in hospital.

Thanks!

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

That chest tonic sounds good.

I think I'd be using liposomal vitamin C with her, and just keep one sachet standing in a glass upright, with the top cut off. Every now and again, I'd squeeze a tiny bit out and smear it inside the cheek of her mouth. The Sachet sort of self seals, because the goop keeps the two sides stuck together... It will absorb through the mucus membranes. And she won't be able to spit it out, as it sticks to the cheek. I'd give it to her just before one of her 2 minute nibbles :D

Let's see where that cough goes though. Just remember that even though you're worried about breastmilk, that's the very best she can have right now...

[ZGT Mummy]

Thanks Hilary. She's barely having much in the way of BM at the moment, even the sleeping feed thing isn't working and if I try to feed her while she's awake she just arches away and screams :( Yesterday she basically didn't feed much during the day, she did make up for it at night though which is a bit of a relief. Today is shaping up much the same, barely a minute of feeding, if that, and only managed that twice so far. I'm just crossing my fingers that she has some decent feeds once she's in bed for the night.

Where would I get some liposomal Vitamin C? Is it the same as lipo-spheric Vit C? I did a google on it and the only place I could see that sells it is John Appleton, but then I suspect that I wouldn't get it till middle of next week now. I'm just going to call my local health shop now, but I won't hold my breath that they have any.

What exactly is liposomal by the way :D

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/page2.html
Almost 100% absorbtion is the key... Liposomal vitamin C is released from the liposomes in the liver almost perfectly imitating the animal release of vitamin C.


http://www.livonlabs.com/Lypo-Spheric-Vitamin-C.html

First, each uni-dose of Lypo-Spheric™ Vitamin C is individually sealed in its own packet — protected from the elements that could degrade the supplement before you use it.

Secondly, the sub-microscopic liposomes surrounding the Vitamin C are virtually impervious to degrading substances in your digestive system.

Thirdly, these “Smart” Lyposomal Nano-Spheres™ protect your lower G.I. Tract - hence, no gastric upset, no diarrheal flushing effect.

Lastly, the liposomes quickly journey to the bloodstream and are circulated throughout the body and "grabbed" by the damaged cells that need the phosphatidylcholine and the Vitamin C.

You can read further, but basically, using nanotechnology, they use a crucial compound in our body, called phosphatidylcholine, and encapsulate the vitamin C and deliver it to the blood.

so for serious diseases particularly where much is going on in the blood, liposomal is the way to go, BUT I'd still use some sodium ascorbate, because of what vitamin C does in the gut itself.

John appleton is the source, and you can ring him.. he puts it on the courier, so you should get it the next day.

[gilima]

my 7 month old just had bronchiolitis at 4 1/2 months and while he continued to feed well, a lot of babies don't. It takes a lot of effort for them to feed and as you say they tend to just spit/cough a lot of it out.

At least you now what she has, and that it is self limiting and hopefully will be over soon:)
With my baby I noticed that he was working really hard at breathing and not sounding right, soI took him to the hospital where he was given a breathing treatment ( nebulizer with albuterol) and oxygen. His breathing improved but he was having a hard time maintaining his oxygen levels so he spent 2 nights there to get oxygen although he did not get any more steroids or any abx.
but, then again my baby has down syndrome so his airways are anyway somewhat narrower than regular kids.
when we got home I started giving him the liposomal C abd I actually do pretty much what mt has explained and it works great. sometimes, O mix a little breastmilk with the pinchand it goes down well.
I didn't mean to ramble on, only meant to say that I really like the liposomal for babies, I actually still give him a "pinch" every day or so since he has a tendancy to get a stuffy nose.
otherwise sounds like you are doing all good things:)
I just might stick to only one thing like the chest remedy, since everything contains echinacea you don't want to overdo it...she is still litte,
If you eat some garlic everyday that would be goog for her too.
btw, i recently read that babies actually like their mothers milk after she eats garlic.....hmmm

[gilima]

I forgot to add that I have been reading about h202 and it's applications in people with coughs , lung/breathing issues.
the recommendation is to put some( I don't remember how much) in a vaporizer/humidifier. sounds like something Iam going to try.
The only thing is that wherever I read ....it is recomended to buy food grade h202 and dilute it to a safe level ( I think 3.5 %) apparently the ones sold in the stores here (at least in the U.S. , I don't know about down your way) have trace metals and other "impurities" inside even though the bottle list 2 ingredients only ....purified water and h202.....who knows, maybe they don't have to list all the other crap that goes in there:giggle:

[ZGT Mummy]

To be honest I didn't even notice her breathing had changed :eek: must pay more attention I think, though really it was just a wee bit raspy when taking deep breaths, not with normal breathing I don't think.


I just might stick to only one thing like the chest remedy, since everything contains echinacea you don't want to overdo it...she is still little,
If you eat some garlic everyday that would be good for her too.


Yes I've now stopped with the comp and am just sticking with the chest tonic. And I've upped my garlic intake too, in fact I'm sure I smell of it, it's leaking out my pores! Constantly have the taste of it in my mouth! I just had some of Hilary's red cabbage salad and added half a bulb to just my serving, no one wants to kiss me now :giggle:

My vapouriser has now been relegated to the rubbish bin :( it started doibng funny things and water came flying out and some plastic melted, so that was it. I did have a back-up, a brand new Vicks one, but it is extremely noisy. I'm sure it's not supposed to be that noisy? It thumps constantly, not just the normal low hum of the water boiling, so not sure what's going on with it, but I had to turn it off as it was driving me insane and I was concerned that it would wake her up during her lighter sleep cycles.

Must go find another one $$$$$$ :(

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Bwahahaha.. I put three cloves of garlic in mine. My husband eats garlic too, so neither of us notice...

[ZGT Mummy]

I think I ended up using about 6-7 cloves today, well half of a good sized bulb, very pungent :eek:

My hubby eats garlic too (one of the very few things he does that's good for him without being told to) but I was more meaning the kids, "pooh mum you stink" :giggle:

[3monkeys]

Do you have a crock pot? Apparently one on low with the lid off makes a very good vapouriser.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

I think I ended up using about 6-7 cloves today, well half of a good sized bulb, very pungent :eek: I think that's a bit much... :lol:


My hubby eats garlic too (one of the very few things he does that's good for him without being told to) but I was more meaning the kids, "pooh mum you stink" :giggle:Have the kids eaten any? Kids usually love that salad. If they eat it, they won't smell you.

[ZGT Mummy]

Surprisingly DS1 had some the first time I made it, because it has avocado in it and he loves avocado. But I've not been able to entice him to have more since then. He did have a decent sized helping though. DS2 is another kettle of fish, DS1 will at least try something to see if he likes it or not. DS2 will barely have a look before he's running the other way, so sadly no go with him. Perhaps it has something to do with his allergies.....

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

ah well, you just eat what you want then. All the more for you :D

[ZGT Mummy]

Right, after finally recovering around Mon or Tues this week, DD is now sick again :( Another little bug did go round DS1 and me but it wasn't a big deal this time but with DD it has blocked her up which is the worst outcome as it means she won't feed :(

So question - how much liposomal Vit C should I be giving her and do I also give SA or just the liposomal? MT I remember you saying you'd give both? I just really want to clear her nose and throat quickly as I don't want the feeding to go too downhill :(

So far I have given her one dose which entailed getting a small blob on my little finger and smearing it in her mouth.

Oh and is it possible to OD on it?

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

No, you won't OD on the liposomal, and a smear every now and again, is all you need. Half a packet a day might be about right, but it's hard to give definite dosages.
I'd try to do both, but it might be best just to use the liposomal.

But what you can do, is use the SA in a concentrated fluid as a "nose spray", because I find it clears my nose pretty well.

Okay, I confess I use it like snuff powder, but you can't expect a baby to do that. Sniffing it like snuff, clears the sinuses out in no time at all.

where do you guys manage to pick up all these bugs :lol:

That husband of yours? :p

[ZGT Mummy]

No, you won't OD on the liposomal, and a smear every now and again, is all you need. Half a packet a day might be about right, but it's hard to give definite dosages.
I'd try to do both, but it might be best just to use the liposomal.

I've given the liposomal to her 3x today, I'm not sure if we reached half a packet as I didn't look how much was in there to start with! But I just noted that it is better to give smaller amounts more often, rather than larger amounts a couple of times? I guess so that there's a more continual supply?


But what you can do, is use the SA in a concentrated fluid as a "nose spray", because I find it clears my nose pretty well.

Okay, I confess I use it like snuff powder, but you can't expect a baby to do that. Sniffing it like snuff, clears the sinuses out in no time at all.

How would I do that? Just dissolve some in water and drop it up her nose? I've always used saline spray for the kids but I have to confess I don't find that it helps that much.

OK, wouldn't sniffing it do damage to the inside of your nose like coke does? Just confirming that I don't have first hand knowledge of that :D


where do you guys manage to pick up all these bugs :lol:

That husband of yours? :p

:giggle: Would you believe that the first round started with DS1 and his fever, then DS2 got the cough and snot, then I purposely caught it from DS2 to give DD the antibodies and was horribly sick for a few days, like I'd been hit by a truck, it was awful, but then she got it worst of all anyway :eyeroll: Only then did hubby start showing some signs of getting something, he came home from work one night and his voice just sounded a bit off so I made him take SA till it was coming out his ears and he never got much more than a sniffle :D Think it has something to do with him working outside maybe?

This round started again with DS1 but again he wasn't even really sick, I just noticed he had a bit of extra mucous and snot up there and that was it for his symptoms. I just have a bit of extra "stuff" on the back of my throat but DD has loads and runny/blocked nose too. And she has a bit of eczema too - co-incides with me eating wheat again :bangshead:

I've just had a lightbulb moment (do we have one of those smilies?) and realised that I have the vapouriser going but also have the ventilation system running which will nullify the effects :slap: Must go turn it off for the night.

And good news, I rang my pharmacy where I bought the thumping vapouriser 2 years ago and explained that it thumped and I'd only used it twice so no issues with scale or anything like that but that I didn't have a receipt so was only wanting to know if I could contact the supplier/distributor to find out if there was anything I could do and he (the owner) replaced it for me, so now I have one that works and is quiet and I didn't have to go spend more money I don't have :banana:

So big kudos to Guthries Life Pharmacy at Pakuranga Plaza :D

[3monkeys]

Big kudos to the pharmacy alright, thats awesome.

Where did you get the lipo vit c. My sons ear is flaring up again and I want to keep the staph out.

I hope your Dd gets over it really quick and her feeding isnt effected. :(

[ZGT Mummy]

Yeah so do I, not like we have any fat in reserve for illness! She just gets so tangled up with the mucous and snot and I guess doesn't like the feeling of it so gives up feeding :(

Got it from www.johnappleton.co.nz (http://www.johnappleton.co.nz)

Lucky I got the new vapouriser too, our slow cooker was used for stew tonight :D

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

I've given the liposomal to her 3x today, I'm not sure if we reached half a packet as I didn't look how much was in there to start with! But I just noted that it is better to give smaller amounts more often, rather than larger amounts a couple of times? I guess so that there's a more continual supply?Yup...



How would I do that? Just dissolve some in water and drop it up her nose? I've always used saline spray for the kids but I have to confess I don't find that it helps that much.How do you use saline spray?

I'm just mix it up in a bit of water, and replace the saline spray...


OK, wouldn't sniffing it do damage to the inside of your nose like coke does? Just confirming that I don't have first hand knowledge of that :DI don't have first hand information about coke, but given that SA isn't coke, and given that lots of people have told me that powdered SA sniffed works better for them than used as a spray, I tried it, and ... it does. Try it yourself and you'll soon know.



:giggle: Would you believe that the first round started with DS1 and his fever, then DS2 got the cough and snot, then I purposely caught it from DS2 to give DD the antibodies and was horribly sick for a few days, like I'd been hit by a truck, it was awful, but then she got it worst of all anyway :eyeroll: Only then did hubby start showing some signs of getting something, he came home from work one night and his voice just sounded a bit off so I made him take SA till it was coming out his ears and he never got much more than a sniffle :D Think it has something to do with him working outside maybe?

This round started again with DS1 but again he wasn't even really sick, I just noticed he had a bit of extra mucous and snot up there and that was it for his symptoms. Ah, so that's the biological incubator :D


I just have a bit of extra "stuff" on the back of my throat but DD has loads and runny/blocked nose too. And she has a bit of eczema too - co-incides with me eating wheat again :bangshead:Not able to keep eyes off muffins???

[ZGT Mummy]

How do you use saline spray?

I'm just mix it up in a bit of water, and replace the saline spray...

I just buy the saline from the chemist and they aren't refillable. Are there refillable spray bottles you can buy that are suitable? Then I'd make my own saline too :)


Ah, so that's the biological incubator :D

Yes but rather odd as we've not been anywhere for the last 2 weeks as it's holidays so no kindy. Hate to think how many bugs him and DS2 are going to bring home now that kindy is back tomorrow :(


Not able to keep eyes off muffins???

:o Maybe......

[gilima]

I hope your little one gets over this one quick!!!!

I like the idea of putting the SA in a spray bottle...how much to mix in?
when giving by mouth I usually just dump a pinch in babies mouth and then nurse or mix a pinch in with a little breastmilk.
so would it be like a "pinch " each spray and times that by how much water goes in the bottle???


btw, I am going to try that suff out now on myself :giggle: