Hepatitis B Vaccination for High Risk Occupations

[Epona]

I start full time employment in October. I had my medical assessment last friday and was told that i needed to have the Hepatits B vaccination (twinrix).. so Hepatitis C also im guessing?

I was told it was was compulsory and i asked if a CO form is acceptable in its place.
After leaving the office (unvaccinated) and after further research, i believe i am able to get out of it using "medical reasons" as an excuse.

Is this a good idea? Should i have the vaccination done anyway?
The whole idea does not sit right with me.
Its not that im worried about contracting the virus.. im just worried that for the initial 6 months post exposure, i would be out of a job, and i just can't afford that. What do i do?

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Twinrix is hepatitis B and A.

There is no vaccine for C.

Why would you want to have a vaccine just for the sake of getting it over and done with? Mind you, I'm biased. I've met so many adults who've been to hell and back again after the Hep B vaccine.

I'd refuse to have the vaccine. If they don't want you, they can fire you.

[3monkeys]

I would be like that too. I wouldnt go into a profession that would force a vaccination on me. My DH "had" to get vaccinated for the volunterr firebrigade and told them no and they were ok with that. Surely it cant be compulsory. I would really look into it.

[magical1]

Hi

It seems that indoctrination is alive and well not only in medical students but also the police.

One day if there is forced vaccines it will be easy to get the police to get involved, especially when they have had no choice in the matter themselves. I will be interested to see what happens if you decline.

[Epona]

I dont want to lose my job. I have worked and trained so very hard to get selected in a highly competitive, well paid and desired career. I feel like i would rather choose the Job over anything at this point. Weird attitude i know, but its how i feel.

If i do choose to go with the vaccination, is there anything i can do to prepare myself for it? Would it be safer to opt for a seperate vaccination for the Hep A and B instead of having them both at the same time? Any vitamins i could take?

I have read a few studies on the risk of exposure in being employed as an officer.. it doesn't actually seem that high. I really do have mixed feelings concerning it.
I am strongly opposed to vaccination as routine in children.. i just dont know where i sit with adults.
My family are quite anti vaccine, but my father who is a police officer had the vaccination, along with about 20 other "routine" vaccinations when he was a member of the Australian Army, and he is so healthy... it just makes me think twice about my belief that vaccines damage the immune systems of healthy strong adults. I mean.. How is that possibe when he has been jabbed more times than a pin cusion and is never sick. ARGH.
But then again, i think the subconscious plays a role... if i go and have this vaccination with the mindset that it could seriously damage me (instead of being oblivious, like most) would that have an impact on my immune systems reaction?
This is a tough one for me. Sorry for the ramble. Its good to read others thoughts about it though. Thankyou all.

[magical1]

hahaha I think you need to change your catch phrase if you go along with the vaccine...:giggle:

[Epona]

hahaha. I was having a think about that before. Any one else have anything to say?

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

I dont want to lose my job. I have worked and trained so very hard to get selected in a highly competitive, well paid and desired career. I feel like i would rather choose the Job over anything at this point. Weird attitude i know, but its how i feel.Then have the vaccine.


If i do choose to go with the vaccination, is there anything i can do to prepare myself for it? Would it be safer to opt for a seperate vaccination for the Hep A and B instead of having them both at the same time? Any vitamins i could take?Yes, vitamin C. Also insist of having the vaccine in the thigh, and then ignore the wait 20 minutes for anaphylaxis, and go with a friend and walk steadily for 20 minutes which will prevent an aluminium deposition forming, and reduce the chances of side effects.


I have read a few studies on the risk of exposure in being employed as an officer.. it doesn't actually seem that high. I really do have mixed feelings concerning it. It isn't that high. Otherwise police would have a very high rate of Hep B infection and carriage, and they don't, do they?!!! and never have, have they?!!!


I am strongly opposed to vaccination as routine in children.. i just dont know where i sit with adults. Why is the principle any different? You should go and ask some of the nurses I know, whose lives have been paralysed by this vaccine: people who have polyarteritis nodosa; who have lost their eye-sight, or who have CFS and conditions mimicking MS; who can't handle sugar now, and have become morbidly obese... . But of course, that's all coincidental, say the medical profession.


My family are quite anti vaccine, but my father who is also a police officer had the vaccination, along with about 20 other "routine" vaccinations when he was a member of the Australian Army, and he is so healthy... it just makes me think twice about my belief that vaccines damage the immune systems of healthy strong adults. I mean.. How is that possibe when he has been jabbed more times than a pin cusion and is never sick. ARGH. Who said vaccines will hit everyone? They don't. Like diseases don't either. The majority of people (70%) who get a hepatitis B infection, never even know they've had it. it's only the 30% who turn yellow, look in the mirror, and see the vile colour of their skin....


But then again, i think the subconscious plays a role... if i go and have this vaccination with the mindset that it could seriously damage me (instead of being oblivious, like most) would that have an impact on my immune systems reaction?Yes it will because cortisol is an immune suppressant. But remember that NONE of the provaccine people who went and got that vaccine, and who were damaged by it, ever gave that a thought. They were convinced this vaccine was good, safe and had no side effects, and were chopped off at the knees.

And you can't tell who will and who won't be chopped off. Vaccinomics hasn't sorted out just which genetype is the one which reacts to the vaccine. Though they know there is a genotype which is the one that's likely to become carriers :giggle: even if they refuse to tell the hoipolloi that...


This is a tough one for me. Sorry for the ramble. Its good to read others thoughts about it though. Thankyou all.

yeah, you need to change your sig :LMAO:

to: "I'm a live fish, but on this occasion I'm considering floating with the flow...."

In the end, this will be the ploy that hooks most adults in. aka...

"you want a good job, with good money, security and prestige, then roll your sleeve up."

Force a person to compromise, to cater to their social status and pride in a dessired career, and most people will do anything.

I'm sure this will be the HD MO of the future as much as possible.

You may well be just fine; just like your Dad.

The choice... is yours. It's called a democracy.

[grandma of 4]

when i was a volunteer ambulance officer they said we had to have hep B vaxs but i refused as the incidence of hep B the service was very very low and as a volunteer they needed me more than i needed them and i went on to spend 15 years on the road and in that time never saw one case of the disease

[Serephina]

Why is the principle any different? You should go and ask some of the nurses I know, whose lives have been paralysed by this vaccine: people who have polyarteritis nodosa; who have lost their eye-sight, or who have CFS and conditions mimicking MS; who can't handle sugar now, and have become morbidly obese... . But of course, that's all coincidental, say the medical profession.

And the penny drops... I ended up with CFS a matter of a few months after having a course of Hep B vaccinations for my job. I wasn't able to work for 12 months after that. That is certainly a risk worth considering.

I can understand where you're coming from Epona, my partner is in the defence force and as such gets jabbed with any number of things on an ongoing basis and has no choice in the matter. Personally I wouldn't choose that for myself but ultimately I guess it's your career and you gotta do what you gotta do. However if you do have a choice, I would avoid the vaccine like the plague.

[Epona]

:coffee: This decision is just getting harder.
:ride:


I really dont want this vaccine, but my job comes first. Im going to see if i can avoid it... and not ruffle any feathers in the process. Thanks everyone for all of your input. Thank especially MT. Its great to read some logic. :)

:baa:

[Seaweed]

Can't you get some kind of religious exemption? Or just refuse. Do they require documented proof before they let you in? I thought they were desperately in need of police so I am sure you could have some room to negociate.

[magical1]

I really feel for you... I have thought about this one today more than I normally do with the board. I post and then move on to a certain extent

Look... if it were me and you want my honest opinion I would not have the vaccine. My first word would be NO and I would assume that my job would not really be on the line. If it were on the line then I would be in for a bun fight (which I would also assume I would win)... but still not take the jab under any circumstances. Sometimes I see these days with experience that where there is smoke there is fire. That comes with being a mother and getting older (for me anyway). If an establishment takes away my rights then I have questions.

I can't however tell you what to do. You have to find where you are most comfortable. I am pro choice and if you choose (either way) and have that choice NOT taken away from you then it is totally your call.

If it comes down to having NO choice then that is where I have issues.

[Epona]

Thanks Magical. I think i do have a choice (i still haven't found out if its compulsory or not yet)... but it comes with a downside... in that.. if i choose not too.. i might stir the waters. You know how people react when you behave differently to the norm?
It was really really really hard to get in and i guess im just scared of stuffing it up and giving them a good excuse to give me the boot.

Im also scared of possibly contracting the disease then having the old.. told you so line thrown my way.
Im really really fit and healthy... and although im not sure if i would have any reactions to the vaccine, why would i risk my health for the possible gain of immunity to a disease im not exactly worried about or at true high risk of contracting.

The NNDSS tells me that there were around 1100 notifications of Hep B diagnosis in WA last year...not exactly epidemic proportions hmm?
There is so much more to this than what i thought. Alot of it comes down to issues with personal trust and confidence in my decisions.
I just read this too...

http://www.aapsonline.org/testimony/hepbcom.htm (http://www.aapsonline.org/testimony/hepbcom.htm)


http://www.aapsonline.org/images/aaps.gif
http://www.aapsonline.org/images/red_line.gif

1601 N. Tucson Blvd. Suite 9
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Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, Inc.
A Voice for Private Physicians Since 1943
Omnia pro aegroto

STATEMENT
of the
ASSOCIATION OF AMERICAN PHYSICIANS & SURGEONS
to the
Subcommittee on Criminal Justice, Drug Policy, and Human Resources
of the Committee on Government Reform
U.S. House of Representatives
RE: HEPATITIS B VACCINE
Submitted by Jane Orient, M.D.
June 14, 1999


Mr. Chairman and Members of the Subcommittee:
My name is Jane Orient, M.D. I am a practicing internist from Tucson, Arizona, and serve as the Executive Director of the Association of American Physicians & Surgeons (“AAPS”).
AAPS is a nationwide organization of physicians devoted to defending the sanctity of the patient-physician relationship. AAPS revenue is derived almost exclusively from membership dues. We receive no government funding, foundation grants, or revenue from vaccine manufacturers. No members of our governing body (the Board of Directors), have a conflict of interest because of a position with an agency making vaccine policy or any entity deriving profits from mandatory vaccines.
AAPS thanks this Committee and Chairman Mica for leaving the record open for a longer period to permit an opportunity to review the hearing transcript, written testimony, and raw data from the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS).
It is apparent that critical medical decisions for an entire generation of American children are being made by small committees whose members have incestuous ties with agencies that stand to gain power, or manufacturers that stand to gain enormous profits, from the policy that is made. Even if such members recuse themselves from specific votes, they are permitted to participate in discussions and thus influence the decision. Moreover, there is the potential for deal- making. Or there may be a simple disinclination to cause problems for one member's agenda in the expectation that that member will reciprocate.
Once a vaccine is mandated for children, the manufacturer and the physician administering the vaccine are substantially relieved of liability for adverse effects. The relationship of patient and physician is dramatically altered: in administering the vaccine, the physician is serving as the agent of the state. To the extent that the physician simply complies without making an independent evaluation of the appropriateness of the vaccine for each patient, he is abdicating his responsibility under the Oath of Hippocrates to “prescribe regimen for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone.”
Should a physician advise against a mandated vaccine, he faces increased legal liability should the patient acquire the disease. Moreover, he may risk his very livelihood if he is dependent upon income from “health plans” that use vaccine compliance as a measure of “quality.”
It is perhaps not surprising, although still reprehensible, that physicians sometimes behave in a very callous manner toward parents who question the need for certain vaccines.
Federal policy of mandating vaccines marks a profound change in the concept of public health. Traditionally, public health authorities restricted the liberties of individuals only in case of a clear and present danger to public health. For example, individuals infected with a transmissible disease were quarantined. Today, a child may be prevented from attending school or associating with others simply because of being unimmunized. If there is not an outbreak of disease and if the child is uninfected, his or her unimmunized state is not a threat to anyone. An abridgement of civil rights in such cases cannot be justified.
With hepatitis B vaccine, the case for mandatory immunization with few exemptions is far less persuasive than with smallpox or polio vaccines, which protected against highly lethal or disabling, relatively common, and easily transmissible diseases. An intelligent and conscientious physician might well recommend AGAINST hepatitis B vaccine, especially in newborns, unless a baby is at unusual risk because of an infected mother or household contact or membership in a population in which disease is common.
AAPS awaits the release of full information concerning the licensure of hepatitis B vaccine and the mandate for newborn immunizations, as requested under the Freedom of Information Act by the National Vaccine Information Center. It is imperative that independent scientists have the opportunity to review the raw data. In the meantime, all coercive means for increasing the immunization rate should be immediately discontinued. Fully informed consent should be sought before vaccine is administered. This requires full and honest disclosure of the risks and uncertainties of the vaccine, in comparison with the risks of the disease.
Information given to parents about this vaccine often does not meet the requirement for full disclosure. For example, it may state that “getting the disease is far more likely to cause serious illness than getting the vaccine.” This may be literally true, but it is seriously misleading if the risk of getting the disease is nearly zero (as is true for most American newborns). It may also be legalistically true that “no serious reactions have been known to occur due to the hepatitis B recombinant vaccine.” However, relevant studies have not been done to investigate whether the temporal association of vaccine with serious side effects is purely coincidental or not.
An independent review of the VAERS data; publications by governmental, pro-vaccine, and anti-vaccine groups; and a sample of the medical literature leads to the following conclusions:

For most children, the risk of a serious vaccine reaction may be 100 times greater than the risk of hepatitis B.
Overall, the incidence of hepatitis B in the U.S. is currently about 4 per 100,000. The risk for most young children is far less; hepatitis B is heavily concentrated in groups at high risk due to occupation, sexual promiscuity, or drug abuse.
VAERS contains 25,000 reports related to hepatitis B vaccine, about one-third of which were serious enough to lead to an emergency room visit, hospitalization, or death. It is often assumed that only 10% of reactions are reported. (This committee has heard testimony about persons being actively discouraged from reporting, even if they are aware of the reporting system.) Thus, if there have been some 80,000 serious adverse reactions associated with 20 million doses of vaccine, the risk is about 4 in 1000.
(This calculation depends on many assumptions. Moreover, many of the patients experiencing temporally associated adverse reactions had simultaneously received more than one vaccine. Nevertheless, a better estimate has not been put forth.)
It should be noted that a less than 1 in 1,000,000 purely hypothetical risk may be used to justify costly federal regulations on highly useful products that are used voluntarily.
In nearly 20% of VAERS reports, the first of eight listed side effects suggests central nervous system involvement.
Examining the first listed effects shows about 4,600 involving such symptoms as prolonged screaming, agitation, apnea, ataxia, visual disturbances, convulsions, tremors, twitches, an abnormal cry, hypotonia, hypertonia, abnormal sensations, stupor, somnolence, neck rigidity, paralysis, confusion, and oculogyric crisis. The last is a striking feature of post-encephalitic Parkinson's disease, or it may occur as a dystonic reaction to certain drugs such as phenothiazines.
The CDC admits that the results of ongoing studies on a potential association of hepatitis B vaccine and demyelinating diseases such as multiple sclerosis are not yet available.
There may be large genetic differences in susceptibility to vaccine adverse effects.
The committee has been told that serious reported adverse effects seem restricted to Caucasians. Yet the oft-cited long-term safety study was conducted in Alaskan natives, and many studies involved Asians. In adults, 77% of the reactions involve women, who are generally more susceptible to autoimmune diseases. This deserves serious study, not off-hand dismissal (“nurses always over-report”). Universal immunization could lead to disproportionate injury to susceptible populations, who might also be the least affected by the disease one is trying to prevent.
Striking increases in chronic illnesses have occurred in temporal association with an increase in vaccination rates.
Asthma and insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus, causes of lifelong morbidity and frequent premature death, have nearly doubled in incidence since the introduction of many new, mandatory vaccines. There is no explanation for this increase. The temporal association, although not probative, is suggestive and demands intense investigation. Instead of following up on earlier, foreign studies suggesting a greater-than-chance association, the CDC, through vaccine mandates, is obliterating the control group (unvaccinated children).
Dr. Classen testified concerning his opinion that hepatitis B vaccine could precipitate diabetes mellitus. Of note, VAERS contains more than 4,000 reports of abdominal symptoms that could have been due to pancreatitis, which was probably not specifically sought and thus missed if present.
Even more alarming is the huge increase in reports of autism and attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder, with devastating, life-long impacts. Much of this could be due to overdiagnosis (now rewarded by numerous government subsidies). The change in behavior that many parents observe related to vaccines could be coincidental, or it might reflect a desperate need to explain a disastrous occurrence. Nonetheless, the implications are so grave that immediate investigation is needed. Measles, mumps, rubella, hepatitis B, and the whole panoply of childhood diseases are a far less serious threat than having a large fraction (say 10%) of a generation afflicted with learning disability and/or uncontrollable aggressive behavior because of an impassioned crusade for universal vaccination.
There are plausible mechanisms such as molecular mimicry whereby vaccines could have such effects. Basic research, as well as epidemiologic studies (starting with a long-term follow-up of reactions reported to VAERS), is urgent.
Hepatitis B vaccine as a cause of sudden infant death has not been ruled out.
The mere observation that the incidence of SIDS has decreased while hepatitis B immunization rates have increased proves nothing whatsoever. In other contexts, the Back to Sleep campaign is credited with a dramatic fall in SIDS; the fall might have been much greater without hepatitis B immunizations. The presence of findings such as brain edema in healthy infants who die very soon after receiving hepatitis B vaccine is profoundly disturbing, especially in view of the frequency of neurologic symptoms in the VAERS.
Does SIDS occur on the day after hepatitis B vaccine with a greater-than-expected frequency? Does it occur at a younger-than-expected age? Are the autopsy findings different in babies who just received the vaccine? The fact that vaccine just happens to be given during the time period that babies are most likely to die of SIDS complicates the analysis. Also, there are a number of other confounding variables (sleep position, socioeconomic status, and possibly smoking behavior).
The data in VAERS are probably too incomplete to answer the questions. A very detailed statistical analysis and an aggressive attempt to obtain more complete information are urgently needed. Glib reassurance, based on the secular trends shown to this Committee, is dangerous.
CONCLUSIONS

Public policy regarding vaccines is fundamentally flawed. It is permeated by conflicts of interest. It is based on poor scientific methodology (including studies that are too small, too short, and too limited in populations represented), which is, moreover, insulated from independent criticism. The evidence is far too poor to warrant overriding the independent judgments of patients, parents, and attending physicians, even if this were ethically or legally acceptable.
AAPS opposes federal mandates for vaccines, on principle, on the grounds that they are:

An unconstitutional expansion of the power of the federal government.
An unconstitutional delegation of power to a public-private partnership.
An unconstitutional and destructive intrusion into the patient-physician and parent-child relationships.
A violation of the Nuremberg Code in that they force individuals to have medical treatment against their will, or to participate in the functional equivalent of a vast experiment without fully informed consent.
A violation of rights to free speech and to the practice of one's religion (which may require one to keep oaths).
AAPS would specifically oppose the campaign for universal immunization against hepatitis B, even if the above did not apply, because the safety of the vaccine is in question.


I mean.... it was written in 1999.. but still

:blink:


:LMAO:

I have to laugh or else i'll cry. lol

[cartersmom]

I had the Hep b series for a job in 1999.....It caused a myriad of subtle problems which I cannot prove were from this vaccine, but I belive they were....joint problems (ended up with kneww surgery at the age of 28) and gut issues, general poor health. I would aviod it!!

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Epona, does the police insist on annual flu shots?

[Spy]

My husband is an SES volunteer (Victoria, Australia), and they subscribe to the same 'high risk jobs' policy as the police and paramedics and push HepB every five years. :rolleyes: That said, they are volunteers, so there is no great pressure about losing the job (although my husband would do anything to be kept active there). However, this HepB routine was perceived by all members of all units as 'compulsory', 'non negotiable' and 'do it or lose permission to do certain jobs' business, as nowhere (!!!) in the policy documents, newsletters, etc was there any mention of any possibility of an exemption, none. Either roll up your sleeve or provide documentation that you have done it elsewhere in the last 5 years.
Until yours truly came up with a good question. :LMAO:what if I don't want to???

Surprisingly, after writing a few letters, calling a few meetings and having a few discussions, there is now an exemption provision in their policy documents, and my husband hasn't had a vaccine in about 10 years now. Funnily enough, a few more people (who are not antivaccine at all, never gave the bigger issue a first though, let alone second) decided that once every five years is ridiculous and opted out. Nothing happened. Noone got kicked out, business as usual.

I'd give it a go, you can always have a vaccine if there is really no good way out.

[Epona]

Epona, does the police insist on annual flu shots?

No. Thank GOD. :LMAO: