Winter in South Africa

[ema-adama]

I just read through the nux vom thread and it is very very interesting.

I have just returned from an unexpected trip to south africa and the flu/cold/cough thing going on there is absolutely crazy.

My mother died very suddenly after a chest infection almost a month ago. She was taking vit C, olive leaf extract, homeopathic something (the homeopath didn't write what it was and I haven't spoken to her), vit D and A. She suffered from asthma and in the last month before her death, she had resorted to a nebulizer after 6 years of not even needing her pump. Through diet and supplements she was managing the asthma very well. Anyway, she got a chest infection and ended up an antibiotics (don't have the name) after her homeopath expressed concern and referred her to an alopathic doctor. She was on her last day of antibiotics when she died. Of course she was taking a good quality pro biotic, walks out on the mountains and plenty of rest - and being at her favorite play and exhibitions in her last days.

So, I flew out to be with my father and for the funeral and was met by my paternal uncle recovering from a chest infection. The next day he was in ICU with a racing heart and laboured breathing. He has not been to a doctor since he was a young child. On my way back to Israel I stayed overnight with friends and the mother was in hospital with a chest infection (also asthmatic). Apparently hospitals are overcrowded with people with chest infections.

It is crazy. 3 people in my immediate life in South Africa have all had very serious chest infections. My brother had a viral bronchitis about 2 months ago (also South Africa), but has fully recovered and was not hospitalized.

So, while my son did develop a cough there I just breastfed him on demand and patted his back to get him coughing when I could hear the phlegm building up and not being coughed out. He is fine now.

But I am concerned about the coming winter here. I really am starting to believe that some virus is rampant, making people very sick with lung infections.

My mother was a picture of health since she started managing her asthma with diet and it is mind boggling for me that she died during an asthma attack. While I am coming to terms with it and accepting it, I also do wonder how best to protect my family now as I am deeply concerned about just how 'strong' this winter bug is.

MT, I meant to thank you for replying to my rather anxious email while I was out in SA. I really do appreciate your time and I know that I am not going to get total answers. I am pretty sure her heart stopped. As is my father. He tried to save her for 20 minutes before the ambulance arrived.

So, after getting that all off my chest, thanks for reading. I really do think we need to be paying attention this coming winter in the northern hemisphere if what is happening in South Africa is anything to go by. What is is like in NZ and Oz?

[gilima]

oy:(,sorry to hear that your mother has died. losing a parent is always sad and hard no matter how old we are,and are even parents ourselves..
I hope you find peace and comfort, sometimes we never really find the answers we are looking for......
sending you healing thoughts....

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Do you have JALP?

If so, read chapter 79.

I believe that any parent's best defence against this sort of worry, whether it be with her own child, herself or her family is to come to terms with the fact that we are all born to die. Enoch, Elijah exempted...

We can do everything right, and our child/whoever might die in a car accident, a plane crash; lightening strike, influenza, aneurism, asthma attack... whatever.

I think the key to really enjoying life, is to do what we can, responsibly, physically, but recognise that man cannot live by bread alone. Plan as if we will live forever, but live as if we will die today. That means, holding no grudges, having where possible no debts; never letting the sun go down on today on tension with others, and making the best of today, rather than leaving what needs to be said until tomorrow. Appreciate what is there today, now. Never take anything for granted, but in all things give thanks, smile and be happy.

I know that probably doesn't answer your question, but I will do what I can about what I can, and I will not worry about what I can't, since that would just damage my immune system and life and make issues worse.

And because the bottom line is, that I believe my times are in God's hands, I'll have a list of questions to ask Him about things that make no sense. :giggle:

[ema-adama]

Gilima, thanks for acknowledging my profound loss. It is hard, even at the age of 31 to loose a parent. My mother was 62. Far too young to die with so many plans ahead of her and such a love of life.

However, MT, you have hit the nail on the head. Plan your life as if you will live forever and live your life as if today is your last day. It's a very weird experience loosing someone so close. I find myself vaccilating between acceptance that death is a part of life and an anxiety that I do not want to loose my child or any other close people to a death that could have been prevented.In many ways I do realise that death is totally unavoidable and feel the responsibility of making my life ccount and living my life responsibly even more strongly. But I also wonder if this death could have been prevented. A pointless track to go down, admittedly, as nothing will bring her back.

I am curious though as to how it is that 3 unrelated people have had such serious chest infections. And I want to feel like I have the skills to handle a bronchial infection this coming winter. Are there high numbers of people developing chest infections in NZ and Oz?

One of the things that I have inherited from my mother is a wealth of books on health and nutrition. I found an amazing one from 1935. I cannot wait to read through and see what common sense advice was being dished out all those years ago. I did read that the cure for constipation is to chew your food properly, which I quite enjoyed. :p

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

According to the newspapers there is a huge increase in people going to the doctor with flu-like symptoms, but according to my friends who are either practicing doctors or receptionists in practices, they are having a lot of problems, mainly with people with bad colds, who are panic stricken that they are about to die from killer swine flu... :rolleyes:

This has also brough all the hypochondriacs out, and also people who, if they got flu, would normally not have bothered with a doctor, but because everyone is being exorted to go for advice, they go. And naturally, pollute everyone else with their lurgies.

According to the paper YESTERDAY, the number of people actually hospitalised is "not unusual for this time of year" which tells me that the actual numbers of serious infections is stable, and the increase is primarily hysteria driven.

The reality is that every year, a lot of people get serious chest infections, and pneumonia.

for me.. because I have an immunodeficiency and am prone to big trouble in the lungs, I actually tend to go more toward lots of raw foods in winter, and if I even start to get sick, everything is raw - juices, salads, etc. Nothing cooked, no dairy, no meat.. everything raw. Makes a huge huge difference to how my body deals with it.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Both my parents have died, so I know how it feels. Death is perhaps a lot harder to deal with if your family life was deeply meaningful, satisfying, and fulfilled in your that need. I never had that. And I'm sure it's affected how I see death.

when my mother died, there were unresolved issues, but her death was a relief to me. any grief was more at unresolved issues, than the fact that she died. On balance, it made my life so much easier that she was out of the picture.

When my father died, because he was 95, and we had said everything, and had had a very good relationship, ... and he was ready to go, I didn't grieve at all in the normal sense. I didn't "miss" him, because we had had the best of years, and a wonderful communication, and I knew it was the "right" time.

But then, in God's eyes, every time has to be the right time in a sense.... and you're right. Crying over what might have been doesn't work. I did that with my mother, and it's not resolved anything :giggle:

I know, though, that if my husband (77) dies before me (55), it will be very hard for me. I think about it a lot, and just hope and pray that God gives me the strength to get through it. If he does die before me, I won't be able to do all the things I do now,... because so much of what he does, enables me to do what I do.... right now he is so fit, and still has lots of energy, but he's slowing down, and like you say.. we just never know. So we talk about this a lot, always trying to be prepared.

Mind you the same applies both ways. He will have one heck of a job picking up the work of the trust. We talk about this a lot, and it's something he's concerned about.

[Spy]

Speaking of winter in OZ, I would say yes, I do see quite a few chest infections, however:
1) Not any more than any other winter
2) Almost exclusively in people who use modern allopathic medicine as the one and only way of life. :rolleyes: Interestingly enough, quite a few of them are also asthmatic, and not all of them are old. I am talking annual flu shots (yes, God knows what would have happened to us if we didn't!), antipyretics, antihistamines, antibiotics, anti..... *insert whatever anti you find in your local pharmacy*

In my immediate family, even though we all carry whatever floats around, among the four of us, myself and my younger son fare the best - neither of us use any alcohol, both take SA when necessary, colds clear within 72 hours. Then there is my husband (occasional alcohol, junk diet, no exercise, no vitamins, gets sorry for himself and dehydrates pathetically every time he feels unwell) - chest infection, moderate, couple weeks, maybe couple times a season. And then there is my teenager uni student (heavy alcohol, substantial junk, vitamins only when remembers, some exercise, but nowhere near enough, plus lack of common sense typical for the age) - this one actually coughed for many months this year, getting a new round before he was out of previous one, eventually had to clear it up homeopathically, but I wouldn't hold my breath, with his lifestyle he will get another one in no time. :rolleyes:. Still, none of us saw a doctor, took any mainstream drugs or was hospitalized.

Oops, I lied - my husband saw a GP last year when he had a severe sinus infection that gave him awful headaches. Got prescribed paracetamol. :LMAO:

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

my husband saw a GP last year when he had a severe sinus infection that gave him awful headaches. Got prescribed paracetamol. :LMAO:

How droll. :alien: I'm sure that helped heaps.... not.. :giggle:

[MinorityView]

We had an unusually nasty something going around last winter, here in Vermont. I had it. I generally get over colds quickly and, except for extra sodium ascorbate don't treat them. This one had me feeling truly awful and took a good two weeks to totally clear. I heard that a lot of people were very sick with it.

This is a pretty healthy area. A lot of people do alternative health and eat decently (but not all). There are more vigorous people in their 70s and 80s than I've ever run into anywhere else. Physically active bunch, too. So I noticed it when so many people were complaining about long-lasting and particularly miserable colds.

[ema-adama]

I guess I am trying to make sense of this on different levels. I do not know if I will ever get to the point where I am convinced the antibiotics killed my mother or some such conviction. I am pretty sure that whatever drug she was on for asthma before she managed her asthma with diet and supplements probably weakened her heart. She really was seemingly healthy at the time she died (other than chest infection). I know that in 26 years she has taken 5 sick days and 3 of them were some weeks before she died. Her cold/flu had her really miserable.

Anyway, I have not had any personal experience of serious chest infection in my family or around me with friends, so it hit hard to have 3 very serious cases around me in a matter of days. (2 asthmatics and one person who is overweight, but otherwise hasn't been to a doctor in 30 odd years)

I do find myself questioning the attempt at outwitting death by natural means or by drugs. I am going to have to think about that some more. Is it a relevant question as to whether my mother would be alive today with a different course of treatment? Was it medical malpractice? Does it matter? (I do not expect answers to these questions)

Yes, my mother was an important person in my life and someone that I will miss sorely. This is a profound loss for me and my family.

[gilima]

I think that ultimately, when someone cose to us dies and we will always want to question...what if...
and to some extent I think it is part of human nature, especially when we are people who are thinkers and know there are different ways of healing and that medicine can even do harm in some cases....
I tend to agree with mt on this one ( having also lost both my parents now)....believig in a G-d or any faith helps to make more sense of death( and birth too) realizing that when it is our time to go , it probably doesn't matter what we did or didn't it was that persons time to go.
We still always need to do the best we can to save someone, but also have to accept that in the end it is not up to us.
It doesn't matter what faith/belief a person has , but it does help to be ble to fall back on something and to try find a spiritual meaning that helps you get through your pain.
I don't mean to "preach" here but having just gone through losing my dad just over a year ago, I know the feeling of ..."questioning".
Even though my fatherlived a full, healthy active life till the ripe old age of 85, I still questioned certain things when I thought back about it, even though deep down I knew it was his time.
I also tend to agree with mt, that when we have unresolved issues, or maybe a rocky relationship the grieving is harder.
I would add to that list livng far away and losing someone suddenly when they are still young.
I guess there may be a "super strain" virus or what have you out there causing all these serious chest infections.........and there are some people who will fare better than others......

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Is it a relevant question as to whether my mother would be alive today with a different course of treatment? Was it medical malpractice? Does it matter? (I do not expect answers to these questions)


No, but these are all questions we all ask. Sometimes in a reverse order, as I did with my father..

He was, against my wishes (I was accused of wanting to murder my father) , given a pacemaker at the age of 90, which means that instead of having to go through death by heart failure, for four years from 91 - 95 he went through years of progressive dementia, as well as three occasions where he nearly died, but the damned pacemaker stops his heart from stopping, and kept him alive. Then I had to listen to him agonise, as a scientist, about the fact that he KNEW that he could no longer find in his head the words he wants to use.

We weren't allowed to have his pacemaker turned off because he had to make that decision. But whenever it was put to him as a choice, he didn't understand the actual choice!

Was it some sort of plot so that the rest home could extract maximum dollars out of him for their profits? Did any of the medical staff actually consider my father's long term interests?

I don't think so, because I know my father. I know that had it been explained to him properly in the first place, that he would much rather have died at 91, out there in the fields painting ... totally compus mentus, than at 95, an utter mental shell of the man he was at 91.

The only way I could deal with that, was to write a total rant about it after he died. But ultimately, for whatever reason, I wasn't listened to, and Dad made a choice which I knew he lived to regret.

I just hope that in whatever context, that doesn't happen to me.

It's something I think about a lot, and in the context of my faith, because I have to ask myself, what part God plays in my life. What do His promises mean to me personally?

More and more, I'm of the mind to leave my future completely up to Him.

[ema-adama]

MT thank you for sharing so openly and honestly.

I am thinking a lot right now about my own death, and how I want to be able to die at home if possible - much like a homebirth, but rather a home death. My mother was lucky in that regard, as she was at home with my father and with the brief interlude of the ambulance team trying to resuscitate her, she was treated with love and dignity in her death. This does comfort me.

So, I am writing a living will and letting everyone around me know that I do not want to be kept 'alive' on machines. I want to die peacefully and with minimal fight and intervention.

These are not easy conversations to be having, but I am learning just how important they are.