Thinking of trying the airplane

[sarahmck]

My two unvaccinated kids have whooping cough and I think I (vaxed many moons ago) may have it now, too.

My daughter (4) started whooping at night on August 5th with no symptoms before that and no coughing during the day. Now she's coughing during the day as well, but much less than at night.

My son (17 months) started coughing almost two weeks ago and started whooping at night in the last few days.

I started feeling a sore throat two nights ago and started coughing a bit last night. I may just have a cold, but I can't help but go through little fantasies in my head in which I have the same horrible illness as my kids and have to deal with it myself while dealing with both of them and it will go on until Christmas. Only time will tell. One thing that makes it seem more likely to me is that my son got it about 13 days after my daughter and now my son has had it for about 13 days.

DD had a pertussis PCR a couple of weeks ago and that came back negative. At the time it was done, she had been whooping for 12 days. We're just counting our blessings that that was negative since there's nothing to be gained from a positive result and lots of annoyance to deal with. But I would find it satisfying to my own curiosity if we'd had a positive result.

DD's had seemed to be calming down a bit at night, but last night was a horrible night for both of them and now I'm feeling pretty down about it. I've been spotty about the vitamin C, but better for the last two days, so it was very frustrating that last night was such a bad night. Both kids were coughing frequently and vomiting or coughing up lots of phlegm. I barely slept and am now spending my morning envisioning what may be to come if I have it too.

So I am going to look into the airplane. Hopefully my husband will have a better idea of where to go to arrange such a thing than I do.

Just venting here, I guess, but if we do it, I will be sure to report back. I have to admit that the geeky scientific side of me is tempted to do a PCR on me and my baby before we do it, just in case we might be early enough to get a positive result. Otherwise, if it works, there's no proof that it worked because there's no proof that we had it in the first place. Our "croup" will have just cleared up on its own.

[Wonder-Full]

The geek in me would want to know too just for curiositys sake and then if you did the aeroplane too then it would be a nice little experiment for sure.

[sarahmck]

Does all this altitude stuff mean that whooping cough isn't seen in communities that live at high altitude? If those communities do have it, what's the explanation? And am I right to think that the altitude is all that matters, so if one had a tall enough mountain accessible or went up in a hot air balloon, those options would also work?

I live in the Netherlands and definitely don't have any mountains nearby, but I used to live in Colorado and I was wondering if one could just drive to the top of Pike's Peak or something.

[3monkeys]

I reckon try the airplane thing. My youngest was hideous. Crying NON STOP for 6 days, had ulcers on her tongue, couldnt breastfeed easily (infact I think thats when she developed the BAD BAD BAD latch and try correct that in a tantruming 2 year old, anyway), she wouldnt sleep etc. It was so bad I even gave her some pamol for the pain. She kept pointing to her mouth and crying "ow, ow, ow, ow". Anyway long story cut short we live on an Island and I was flown off to have her seen by a paed, which I knew was a waste of time and energy but more than anything I was so friggin exhausted I was looking forward to a night away from home and the other 2 children. So anyway we did a 20 minute flight and she got of it at the other side and honestly she was a different child. I dont know what it was. Maybe the altitude popped something in her ears or something that had been annoying her but without a word of a lie she went from lying on me and continously crying no stop for a week to walking around happily exploring AND she ate later that night. Then we went back to Mum and Dads and she slept for more than 30 minutes at a time. So based on that alone I am convinced that pressure works. I dont think its the altitude as such but the pressure that the altitude creates. What is it, 1km = 1 atmosphere of pressure? I know with scuba its 10m= 1 atm.

Anyway thats my short, but long winded way of saying you seriously have nothing to lose.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

.

Just venting here, I guess, but if we do it, I will be sure to report back. I have to admit that the geeky scientific side of me is tempted to do a PCR on me and my baby before we do it, just in case we might be early enough to get a positive result. Otherwise, if it works, there's no proof that it worked because there's no proof that we had it in the first place. Our "croup" will have just cleared up on its own.

I'd give my eye teeth to be in a position to perform such a wonderful home schooling scientific experiment, to write into the annals of family history :giggle:!

a friend of mine in NZ just recently ended up taking her four children, herself and her coughing husband up in the plane, and reported back that not only did she convert her skeptic husband, but her moaning MIL, as well as the pilot!

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Does all this altitude stuff mean that whooping cough isn't seen in communities that live at high altitude? If those communities do have it, what's the explanation? And am I right to think that the altitude is all that matters, so if one had a tall enough mountain accessible or went up in a hot air balloon, those options would also work?

First, I've not been able to find accurate medical article data on pertussis rates at altitude, so I don't know if it's a big issue or not.

Secondly, the blood of people living at altitude is quite different to those a lower levels. I also don't know if the bacteria adapts to altitude, or what the situation is.


I live in the Netherlands and definitely don't have any mountains nearby, but I used to live in Colorado and I was wondering if one could just drive to the top of Pike's Peak or something.

I suspect from talking to medical people with an interest in this, that the key is a fast sudden drop in 02 levels and keeping it at that level for a minimum of half an hour. Why it appears to work is a total mystery, but then, so is the innate immune system. Just because something isn't understood doesn't mean it's some weirdo concept.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

3 monkeys could be right. It could be sort of like reverse hypobaric treatment...

[Spy]

And I don't think bacteria has anything to do with it either, it is the leftover cough, when bacteria is long gone, that usually bothers people, and it is that cough that alternating pressure helps with.

I also don't see why higher altitude communities wouldn't be able to have whooping cough just like any normal people. :giggle: You can adapt to anything, and you would still need to change altitude to try and interfere. Maybe they need to come down to the valley instead or dive, or go even higher, who knows. :D

[sarahmck]

We just called the airport and discovered that they're only allowed to fly up to 6,000 feet without special permission. I don't know how to get that permission. Aargh! Have to figure a way around this.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

How amazing. Why is it that no-one else I know whose tried this, has met that restriction? What's the problem with "permission"? Is it not as simple as asking? Remember the airplane has to be unpressurised, so usually, to get that sort of charter, you need to go to a private airclub...

[3monkeys]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_pressure

then scroll down to this bit

Altitude atmospheric pressure variation

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/38/Air_pressure_crushing_a_plastic_bottle_p1180559.jp g/140px-Air_pressure_crushing_a_plastic_bottle_p1180559.jp g (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Air_pressure_crushing_a_plastic_bottle_p11805 59.jpg) http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Air_pressure_crushing_a_plastic_bottle_p11805 59.jpg)
This plastic bottle, sealed at approximately 2,000 m (6,600 ft) altitude, was crushed by the increase in atmospheric pressure when brought to sea level.


Pressure varies smoothly from the Earth's surface to the top of the mesosphere (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesosphere). Although the pressure changes with the weather, NASA has averaged the conditions for all parts of the earth year-round. The following is a list of air pressures (as a fraction of one atmosphere) with the corresponding average altitudes. The table gives a rough idea of air pressure at various altitudes.
fraction of 1 atm average altitude (m) (ft) 1 0 0 1/2 5,486 18,000 1/3 8,376 27,480 1/10 16,132 52,926 1/100 30,901 101,381 1/1000 48,467 159,013 1/10000 69,464 227,899 1/100000 86,282 283,076
and have a look at the picture of the bottle. Thats at 6000 feet.

You know based on my very basic understanding of pressure on the human body from SCUBA diving I think 6000ft is worth trying.

[3monkeys]

oh look, the bottle is there. Clever cut and paste.

[ZGT Mummy]

I don't know where you are, but here in NZ all you need to do is go to your local skydiving place. In my former life I was a skydiver (oh to feel that freedom again!) and we would go up to either 12,000ft if it was the dodgy cessna, or 13,000ft in the gorgeous Porter. Plane was definitely unpressurised of course, door was wide open!

I'm sure no matter where in the world, just look up a local skydiving centre. Just be prepared for the weird and wacky individuals that you'll meet!

[3monkeys]

:rofl: cant be anymore weird or wacky than us lot.............

[ZGT Mummy]

Oh you'd be surprised! But thing is you'd probably not get any grief at all for wanting to go up to cure whooping cough. If my kids get whooping cough I'll be heading straight down to Mercer.

Blue skies as they say.

[3monkeys]

might need to take up sky diving :ROFL:

[gilima]

what about a regular flight in a pressurized cabin ?? they go to over 30.000 ft...does it do anything?

I am just wondering out loud here.....no-one has whooping cough right now, but if one of us gets it....I don't see myself going up in one of those little 3-5 seaters......maybe just the fear would kick the cough away...:giggle:

[Missys]

sarahmck - i took all my children up on Feb 14th this year. They all had diagnosed pertussis. We went up on a Saturday. By MOnday the daytime cough was pretty much gone, By Thursday the nighttime cough was also pretty much gone. IT WORKS! It really really works!!! We went up to 10,000 ft in an unpressurised aircraft, chartered at my local airfield. Cost $500 - for all of us.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Pressurized aircraft does nothing.

[ZGT Mummy]

Just thinking, so then if it's an air pressure thing then theoretically just going to an elevation on land of 10,000ft would also work? For instance Mt Ruapehu is just over 9,000ft, Mt Cook 12,000ft. Just wondering - though it would be easier to charter a plane!

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Just thinking, so then if it's an air pressure thing then theoretically just going to an elevation on land of 10,000ft would also work? For instance Mt Ruapehu is just over 9,000ft, Mt Cook 12,000ft. Just wondering - though it would be easier to charter a plane!

and far more interesting to fly around and actually LOOK at geology from the air. You need to be 10,000 feet or above.

[gilima]

Is there a minimum of time that is recommended to be at that altitude to do the job??

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Yes, half an hour. That's what the British Army uses, and that's what all the New Zealanders have been doing in the last 12 months.

The word has really got out here, and quite a few pilots have taken up their own family, who by the way, were all vaccinated.

The British Military are correct. it works brilliantly.