Antifungal remedy for baby

[ZGT Mummy]

8 month old DD has terrible rash on her bottom. It started as a wee bit of nappy rash a couple of months ago, but that cleared pretty quickly and then the eczema set in and has spread to pretty much her entire bottom.

I'm wondering though if it's fungal, but don't want to use the OTC stuff from the pharmacy so wondering if there's any natural remedies I could try that won't harm even if it's not fungal.

She has really sensitive skin and does have eczema elsewhere so something mild and kind would be good.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Do you have a good digital camera, to take a photo, close-up, in focus so that we can see?

With stuff like nappy rash, with us, it never came to anything, because I used Ungvita all the time. I also used nappy liners, which meant that the bottom was never in contact with urine, and with dirty nappies, they were always changed straight away...

[Wonder-Full]

Does she have food allergies? DS's bad nappy rash as a baby was in hindsight related to his gluten intolerance...

[ZGT Mummy]

Grrr, just tried to post my reply and lost it.

Don't know yet about food allergies, though quite likely given family history, however my diet is restricted from all the main allergens so not sure what else I could target. She's just on fruit, veges and bit of meat every so often.

Here's the photos, best I could do given that she won't sit still and my camera's not the best. They kept coming out blurry :(

It was the first time she'd ever had nappy rash and was because she had a bit of a runny bum that day. Haven't ever had it since, but this is different from nappy rash (well the nappy rashes I've ever seen). It's obviously itchy as she tries to get at it every time I change her. I'm using disposables at the moment, partly because I won a free box of them :D and partly because the rash is also dry and itchy so I've been moisturising her bum which creates havoc with my cloth nappies.

Can't figure out how to add the photos straight here so I've added them as attachments.

[ZGT Mummy]

Anyone have any ideas? It's getting slowly worse, more and more red and VERY itchy. Thanks!

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

First, if you are using cloth nappies, moisturizing her bum shouldn't be a problem if you are using fine cotton loos-knit triangles inside the nappies. They wick away the moisture, and act as a barrier to keep the bottom relatively protected...

I'm wondering... they look a bit like hives (urticaria) to me. Which as you know is an allergic skin reaction, when histamine is released.

Did you start using the disposables before they started? If so, she might be allergic to chemicals in the disposables. As you know, there are lots of causes for hives, ... if hives is what it is.

So did you start using the disposables before they started? Disposibles caused havoc with my kids, but 27 years ago, they contained dioxin and a whole lot of other stuff. I've not investigated disposibles lately.

If it's allergic, then you've got to remove the cause and dampen that down, and you can do that with vitamin C internally, as well as aloevera gel with coconut oil, or some moisurizer to counteract the drying effect of aloe vera.

There are many herbs which help with urticaria, but I can't see how they could be used in your situation.

If it's plain nappy rash, that is usually as a result of a skin reaction to acidity and ammonia. To alleviate that rash you need to neutralise the acidity (baking soda solution) and use some sort of cream such as Sudocrem, if that's on your okay list...

Oatmeal and epsom salts baths as well.... Epsom salts is magnesium sulphate and is also a neutralizer of acid.

[Wonder-Full]

Sorry, no. Only that the rash looks like what my ds's butt rashes were like. Just wondering if probiotic powder would be beneficial if this happened after having had diarrhoea? Other than that, can you also pinpoint any new foods that you might have given around that time? Was the diarrhoea a tummy bug or new food reacting with her?

[Lexie]

Personally, I've had hives. The last time being about 4 years ago. I tried taking vitamin C internally hoping it would help, but it didn't. And then I thought...maybe it's just taking too long to get to the area, especially since it was an external issue. So I mixed calcium ascorbate and honey (just to make it stick) and applied it to the area as well as I could manage--it was my entire upper back--and let it work for an hour before washing it off. My skin looked almost perfect after...it was remarkable. So this will be my hives remedy forever. Just thought I would share.

[ZGT Mummy]

Thanks everyone for the replies.


I'm wondering... they look a bit like hives (urticaria) to me. Which as you know is an allergic skin reaction, when histamine is released.

No, I don't think they are hives. I have allergic reactions several times a day so I'm well acquainted with urticaria and that's definitely not what's happening here. Not saying it's not an allergic reaction, just not the typical hive-type reaction.


Did you start using the disposables before they started? If so, she might be allergic to chemicals in the disposables. As you know, there are lots of causes for hives, ... if hives is what it is.

No, I only started using the disposables in the last week or so, long after this started. I started using them because my cloth nappies were leaking all the time, even though there wasn't much in them, because, I assume, they were being waterproofed by the moisturiser.

I don't normally use liners as she poos just roll off but the liners I have are spunlace flushable ones so not sure how protective they are in terms of wicking the moisture away. Definitely would be helpful with the moisturiser issue though, didn't even think of that!


If it's plain nappy rash, that is usually as a result of a skin reaction to acidity and ammonia. To alleviate that rash you need to neutralise the acidity (baking soda solution) and use some sort of cream such as Sudocrem, if that's on your okay list...

Oatmeal and epsom salts baths as well.... Epsom salts is magnesium sulphate and is also a neutralizer of acid.

I'm thinking I'll go with plain nappy rash for now. Re baking soda solution, how would I make this up? Would I clean and then apply this, then the cream on top? Sudocream is fine and I actually had some from DS2's Bounty pack that didn't expire till 2011 so I used that today.

I used to use Mustela Barrier Cream on the boys and found it to be fantastic, though they never really had many issues with nappy rash. So I had a moment this afternoon as hubby came home early from work with wet undies (the gold standard for knowing when it's too wet to work :giggle:) and ducked out and got some more Mustela and have plastered that on, so will see how she is in the morning.

So would I dab the baking soda solution first, before the Mustela?

We're not set up to do baths here (sounds crazy I know but she's always just had a shower with daddy) so don't know how I could re-work our routine to fit in an epsom salt bath. Interestingly though I noticed one of the ingredients of the Mustela cream was magnesium sulphate.


Sorry, no. Only that the rash looks like what my ds's butt rashes were like. Just wondering if probiotic powder would be beneficial if this happened after having had diarrhoea? Other than that, can you also pinpoint any new foods that you might have given around that time? Was the diarrhoea a tummy bug or new food reacting with her?

Yes I have been on a probiotic since I was pregnant with her, so I would assume she'd get some through my milk. I was reluctant to give any to her orally till she was on solids and I've actually just recently sorted my probiotic situation out and got some for the kids, and she actually had her first dose this morning. Hard to administer to her though as it just won't dissolve in breastmilk and she doesn't eat purees so can't mix it with food!

The diarrhoea was just a couple of times in a day and was just after she started with broccoli. I stopped giving it to her for a week or so then tried again and this time no reaction, so she's had it most days since then.

I guess I should be giving her some vitamin c then in case it's an allergic reaction? I'm just reading that in FOPTA re the effect of vitamin c on histamine. Wish I'd known that earlier.

Just as an afterthought, Hilary, would this be a good way to treat a more severe allergic reaction, rather than administering antihistamine? I'm a bit wary though in situations where DS2 is having an allergic reaction. Though we've never had to use his epipen, we've come close a couple of times and it's really scary stuff. In this situation we'd want to give him something that works FAST, but would vitamin c do the job in the place of antihistamine? If he went pale and floppy or couldn't breathe I'd be jabbing him in the thigh though!

I guess with my allergic reactions vitamin c would be a good way to go. I generally either just wait for it to subside, itching like crazy in the meantime, or take some homeopathy.

That is interesting Lexie about the hives. I don't think I could manage that with me though, I'd be permanently doused in honey mixture from head to toe, looking like Winnie the Pooh who'd just fallen head first into a pot of honey :giggle:

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

I don't normally use liners as she poos just roll off but the liners I have are spunlace flushable ones so not sure how protective they are in terms of wicking the moisture away. Definitely would be helpful with the moisturiser issue though, didn't even think of that!The liners I used were knitted in a fine cotton rib; very very soft, and just got washed in the washing machine after being scrubbed and soaked. They wick away water very effectively. I never put enough of a barrier cream (ungvita) to make a mess of the liner. It's only there to lightly seal the skin from ammonia.


I'm thinking I'll go with plain nappy rash for now. Re baking soda solution, how would I make this up? Would I clean and then apply this, then the cream on top? Sudocream is fine and I actually had some from DS2's Bounty pack that didn't expire till 2011 so I used that today.

I used to use Mustela Barrier Cream on the boys and found it to be fantastic, though they never really had many issues with nappy rash. So I had a moment this afternoon as hubby came home early from work with wet undies (the gold standard for knowing when it's too wet to work :giggle:) and ducked out and got some more Mustela and have plastered that on, so will see how she is in the morning.There is no point in trying too many things at one go. i'd stick with this for now and see how it goes.


We're not set up to do baths here (sounds crazy I know but she's always just had a shower with daddy) so don't know how I could re-work our routine to fit in an epsom salt bath. Interestingly though I noticed one of the ingredients of the Mustela cream was magnesium sulphate.You don't need a "bath" other than a baby bath, or use the kitchen sink or a large oval bowl. Just enough to tuck her rear end into it. Of course she might want to cover you in a bit of wet stuff, but that's usually par for the course whatever they are in :D


I guess I should be giving her some vitamin c then in case it's an allergic reaction? I'm just reading that in FOPTA re the effect of vitamin c on histamine. Wish I'd known that earlier.There's no point, if you think it's not an allergic reaction. If you do too much, how will you know what works?



Just as an afterthought, Hilary, would this be a good way to treat a more severe allergic reaction, rather than administering antihistamine?Absolutely, I treat allergic reactions with vitamin C. :giggle: In other people's children. Mine aren't allergic to anything now. Twice, I treated allergy to bee stings in situations where it was impossible to get them to medical attention within the required "40 minutes or they will die". In both cases both parents and medics arrived hours later expecting a corpse, only to find a kid who didn't understand why they were pinioned under a verbal ball and chain.

And when I told them what I'd done, I think they thought I was gaga. But as I said to them, if it didn't work, then they better question the diagnosis.


I'm a bit wary though in situations where DS2 is having an allergic reaction. Though we've never had to use his epipen, we've come close a couple of times and it's really scary stuff. Obviously, using vitamin C first, isn't going to alter a point if you need an epipen is it, so I can't see where the safety issue of vitamin C is.


In this situation we'd want to give him something that works FAST, but would vitamin c do the job in the place of antihistamine? If he went pale and floppy or couldn't breathe I'd be jabbing him in the thigh though!I'd use vitamin C right at the beginning, but follow through with the epipen when it got to the point where you need to. If vitamin C works, fine. If it doesn't, then do as normally done. :D


I guess with my allergic reactions vitamin c would be a good way to go. I generally either just wait for it to subside, itching like crazy in the meantime, or take some homeopathy.You are an ideal subject to experiment on, eh... :alien: :LMAO:


That is interesting Lexie about the hives. I don't think I could manage that with me though, I'd be permanently doused in honey mixture from head to toe, looking like Winnie the Pooh who'd just fallen head first into a pot of honey :giggle:Hives can look different, even in same families. What hives look like with one person, isn't necessarily what they look like with another.

[ZGT Mummy]

Thanks Hilary. Yes I'll just go with the cream and see what happens.


I'd use vitamin C right at the beginning, but follow through with the epipen when it got to the point where you need to. If vitamin C works, fine. If it doesn't, then do as normally done. :D

What doses are we talking about? As I said we haven't had to use it yet and hope that we never have to, but if Vit C is going to work and reasonably fast then I'll do it!


You are an ideal subject to experiment on, eh... :alien: :LMAO:

Yes but then I have several reactions a day so in my case I'd be constantly reaching for it. So maybe I should jsut be taking a reasonably high dose everyday then?


Absolutely, I treat allergic reactions with vitamin C. :giggle: In other people's children. Mine aren't allergic to anything now. Twice, I treated allergy to bee stings in situations where it was impossible to get them to medical attention within the required "40 minutes or they will die". In both cases both parents and medics arrived hours later expecting a corpse, only to find a kid who didn't understand why they were pinioned under a verbal ball and chain.

And when I told them what I'd done, I think they thought I was gaga. But as I said to them, if it didn't work, then they better question the diagnosis.

I just can't understand why we aren't told about vitamin c when it's all there in the literature. I've just finished reading the vit c chapters in FOPTA and it astounds me that they just won't acknowledge what is there in black and white. You've been dealing with it for so long though, I just don't know how you cope? Even after just a couple of months I'm frustrated!

[ZGT Mummy]

Well it doesn't look like the cream is doing much, she's still itching like crazy and it's still pretty red. It is a little bit better but not as much as I'd have expected based on how well the cream works on the boys.

So I think I want to explore fungal. Are there any more natural remedies or should I just go down the the chemist and get some cream?

[justine]

My daughter had a strange rash on her genitals when she was a baby. I took her to the plunket nurse, she had no idea and told me to use caster/zinc. I took her to the doctors he gave me something that did not work! I asked at the chemist and she gave me some antifungal cream that cleared it up in one go. It was about $7. Good luck. :hug:

justine

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

I just can't understand why we aren't told about vitamin c when it's all there in the literature. I've just finished reading the vit c chapters in FOPTA and it astounds me that they just won't acknowledge what is there in black and white. You've been dealing with it for so long though, I just don't know how you cope? Even after just a couple of months I'm frustrated!

I think we go through stages of feeling. At first, I got frustrated. Now, nothing surprises me. I can quite see why people end up on the conspiracy pathway, because, even when the information is there in bucket loads in their own literature, nothing is every done about it.

Because there is no logical explanationt to their silence, then people try to find other answers. That's why they come up with the conspiracy angles.

Is there a conspiracy? How would I know? If something was known about it wouldn't be a conspiracy, would it? :giggle:And if it's a successful conspiracy, we wouldn't know about it, would we?

:ride:

[amalie]

I just wondered ZGT how you are getting on with this?

I have had a similar problem in my 7mo daughter, but it comes and goes. She also gets it under her neck.
It has cleared up a lot in response to my diet changes, (I probably ate a lot worse than you to start off!) but it still flares if she comes in contact with anything allergenic. Figuring out what that is, is a process we are jsut starting. I hate seeing her scratch, scratch, scratch it too.

She is also in cloth naps, I have heard the silk liners are great for allergenic babies but would be keen to try the fabric Hilary is talking about too, I can make some if I get the fabric. I bought some liners you could flush down the toilet (We are on septic tank not town sewage) but I realised they really made her flare - problem stopped when I took them off. I got them from Baby Factory - they now in the bin. Hard to find ones you can flush. ATM I don't bother, just bum on cloth.

I guess there is not much to add really, everyone else has actual helpful advice. For me it is just ongoing, trying to work out what makes it flare. Today she had a wee bit of cottage cheese and WHAT a mistake. Great urticarial reaction.
Everyone else I know feeds their babies so much crap!!!! and no skin probs at all. It's depressing!! It is a comfort to know she is getting a good start. Probably before she fries her liver as a naughty teenager!

[amalie]

I forgot to add, the doctor told me to use daktarin (miconazole) on it - I had some from when I got thrush on my nipples. It cleared up overnight, but it is quite hard on her liver so I am reluctant to keep it up. Baking soda or mustela sounds much gentler.

[ZGT Mummy]

Hi amalie, we're OK, bit better at the moment. I've been keeping up with the Mustela and it seems to have cleared up quite a bit of the problem, but she still scratches at it and she's sooo rough! I have to pin her arms down under my legs when I change her which, of course, she doesn't like so she screams at me till I'm done.

Not very pleasant!

Anyway, much better as I said, but still not 100%, I think it is more like eczema now as it does blend in with the little patches of eczema on her thighs. They aren't bad at all though, only bad enough to slap on a bit of extra moisturiser.

The only thing with the Mustela, even though it's a lovely thick cream, it doesn't moisturise so the skin is rather dry underneath it. I think what I want to do next is find a good moisturising bum cream. Hilary, you mentioned Ungvita, is this a good moisturiser too? I've never used it before but keen to give it a good if it will help.

Funny you mention under the neck amalie as that's where Tait's problem first started. I seem to have it under control right now with loads of moisturiser. I tried one of those amber teething necklaces on her last weekend and it ade her eczema flare terribly, which is something I've heard from other mums with allergy babies. So that's going on TradeMe! She' doesn't seem to be struggling much with it right now, *touch wood*, so we'll see how we go and just stick to homeopathy if needed I think! Mind you she's nearly 9 months old and still no teeth! Mum said I was at least 10 months old before I got my first one and she didn't even realise so looks like she's taking after me.

I finally have an appointment with a homeopath, but not for another 2.5 weeks so will see how that works out too. I am hanging out for it actually as my skin is driving me up the wall. Right now the only part of my body without eczema is my feet! The rest of my body is covered in rash, much of it raw from so much scratching. It's to the point where I've had to use a bit of steroid cream. Yes I know, I know, but needs must.

I've started taking vitamin B complex supplement too just in case that helps. But my pee is now highlighter yellow so I figure my body doesn't need much of it?

The flushable liners I use are from the company where I bought my nappies. Here's the link http://www.nappydays.co.nz/products/liners/spunlace-liner.html

But I use them so rarely on her that I don't know if she reacts to them or not. Her "solids" are so solid that they just roll off the nappy anyway!

But I would also be interested in what you used Hilary. If I knew exactly what type of fabric to buy I'd go get some and give it a go. I assume they need overlocking? I could get my MIL to do that for me (though I sent her something a few months ago and I've not seen it again!).

I know what you mean about seeing what other people feed their babies. I went through all that when I had DS2. I was still with my coffee group when he was this age and their second babies were similar ages or slightly younger and they were having all sorts of "fun" things and Gabriel was still just on fruit and veges. I don't feel that way with Tait though as we don't see that coffee group anymore (turned out they were the supportive support group I thought they were) and now that I'm learning more about what's actually in all the foods that these mums are feeding their kids I just feel sorry for them more than anything. Which is rather patronising I realise, but I also remember that I used to feed my eldest, Zarne, some of those things too and then I start to feel sorry for him!

That cottage cheese reaction sounds pretty strong. Do you have allergy history in your family too? We have it up the wazzoo. The whole English side of my family is riddled with allergy of some sort. Atopy in abundance! Plus add in hubby's hayfever and asthma and it's really a recipe of disaster. I am still in complete amazement that Zarne has seemed to have dodged every single allergy bullet. Obviously still hayfever to come but no signs of asthma, no eczema, no food allergies. I just don't understand how he did!

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Hilary, you mentioned Ungvita, is this a good moisturiser too? I've never used it before but keen to give it a good if it will help.

It's based on fish oil, and smells like it. If you're okay with fish oil, have a look next time in the chemist.


I've started taking vitamin B complex supplement too just in case that helps. But my pee is now highlighter yellow so I figure my body doesn't need much of it? No, the yellow is just an excretory by-product and doesn't indicate anything other than your body processed it. as I understand it. If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone else will let me know.


I would also be interested in what you used Hilary. If I knew exactly what type of fabric to buy I'd go get some and give it a go. I assume they need overlocking? I could get my MIL to do that for me (though I sent her something a few months ago and I've not seen it again!).It was just a very fine knit cotton, which was like an uber find rib. they came pre-overlocked in triangle shapes. I dont' know if they still sell them. And we don't have any left, because after the babies were done with them, I used them all as window cleaners...

[Wonder-Full]

That's my understanding with taking B vitamins as well (it's actually only one of the B's that does it).

[gilima]

I don't know if this is related but my one daughter would get ecxema that came and went on her elbow ( she is gluten intolerent and gluten free and was sensitive to corn but loves corn anyway )
I used a salve based on emu oil and it worked really nicely , also when she cuts down on sugar it goes away....I think for some people sugar is a biggie!!!

My baby has been having on and off diaper rash all the time and I have tried everything.....even nyastatin ( an antifungal cream) in desperation which didn't help anyway:giggle:
I finaly cut out corn (after trying to cut out everything else and it didn't help any) so I am eating dairy etc; but just not much corn, I do have on occaision but very little and I also starded using manuka honey with some vitamin c added to the "paste" and his bottom is clear!!!
I use cloth nappies and have tried changing detergents, washing on hot sometimes with no soaps, sun drying etc; the nappies are all 100% cotton or hemp, mostly home knitted soakers and still his bottom would be pink, in just a little stubborn area.
Irecently had to put him in disposable diapers for 2 weeks (due to my other daughter being in the hospital) and he didn't react well at all , till my dh had to go buy the really expensive unbleached chemical free ones from the health food store and then he was fine.
some babies are really sensitive to artificial stuff.

[ZGT Mummy]

Yes I've heard some good things about emu oil. With the honey and SA paste, did you just mix some SA into the honey and smear it on? Could get messy!

I think my little girl is sensitive to synthetic things. I tried some synthetic nappies on her when she was little and her skin flared within an hour. Took them off and put our bamboo ones back on and within an hour back to normal. So we stick to our bamboo ones.

[gilima]

I have mixed a little honey with SA and on anothe occaision with the liposomal c ( whatever was closest on hand at the time :giggle:)
I usually put a little bit of manuka honey in small travel size containers that I can easily slip into the diaper bag or backpack etc; and that way I always have a little on hand and it doesn't get too messy since it is a small amount of honey:)

I recently received some bamboo fitted nappies from someone and I was a little disapointed with their performance.....they just don't seem to absorb to well and I was wondering if I need to maybe just wash them in hot water a few times without any soap to "break them in" or fluff them up or something. I have only used cotton and hemp till now and hemp usually a needs a few good washes to get them good for use.

[ZGT Mummy]

Thanks for that. I think I'll give the manuka honey a go, though her bottom is looking quite good now actually.

I don't have any issues with my bamboo ones. I have been using disposables lately as I was given a box and I found that they wouldn't last the night and she would end up soaking in the morning. Mainly because she feeds so much through the night I think!

Night before last I was up at 4:30am changing the sheets! So last night I put her back in the bamboo nappies with a couple of bamboo boosters added in (poor thing wasn't used to it and looked like those little toys with the weights in the bottom that swing from side to side but don't fall over!). She lasted right through the night with no leaks at all.

So I'm happy with the absorbancy of mine.

When I got them I was told to wash at least 3-4 times first, then don't use them at night for a week or so, which will ensure another 3-4 washes. She said 10 washes will get them to max absorbancy. I use Flexitots which are from the UK.

[ZGT Mummy]

Oh and I always hot wash my nappies, using liquid soap not powder, and extra rinse to make sure all soap is out.