Any Dog owners on here?

[Barefoot]

I has this email from natural news this morning and we are getting a dog soon.
So would welcome your own experience or thoughts.

"Dear readers,

Want to know how to help your pet live a long, healthful life? In an exclusive interview, "Live with Dr. Lisa Newman," Lisa Newman, N.D. and PhD, explains why commercial pet food and conventional veterinary care may actually be cutting your pet's life short.



Just as we see in people, the pet population is succumbing to increasing degenerative disease. But it's no coincidence: We're feeding our pets many of the same disease-causing ingredients that are used in the junk foods people eat. Check out the label on your pet's food or treats. You'll probably find it contains white rice or corn (refined grains) and salt, and sometimes even sugar or corn syrup. These are the same processed food ingredients that contribute to diabetes, hypertension and cancer in people.



But this is only the beginning of the story. When you start to really research how commercial pet foods are made, the ingredients list becomes truly horrifying. Did you know that recycled shoe leather is an acceptable ingredient? Even euthanized dogs and cats are "acceptable" ingredients in pet food.



I recently had an opportunity to interview Dr. Newman, a pet nutrition expert who is also the owner of Azmira Holistic Animal Care. She gave me an insider's view of what really goes on in the pet food industry, and she told me why pets are more diseased than ever. Dr. Newman also explained how to protect your pet with quality products and natural therapies.



Read all this and more in "Live with Dr. Lisa Newman," available for downloading now at:

http://downloads.truthpublishing.com/LiveWithDrLisaNewman.pdf



In this fascinating interview, Dr. Newman shares vital information such as:

Why most commercial pet food supplements contain highly toxic ingredients
Which foods you should never give your pets
Why vegetarian pet food isn't a healthy alternative for your pet
How monthly flea, tick and heartworm medications are contributing to canine lymphoma
Why puppies and senior dogs need more vitamin C than adult dogs
Which table scraps are good for dogs and which ones you shouldn't give them
Why the number of dogs and cats with food allergies is rising
Why supplements containing only one vitamin or mineral don't work well for pets
Which ingredients help keep your pet's digestive tract clean and healthy
How kelp promotes a healthy, shiny coat
Why yucca is especially good for dogs
How nutritious foods can add many healthy years to a pet's life
Why pets need highly concentrated supplements
If you have pets, you will definitely want to read this interview with Dr. Newman. As a holistic pet health consultant, she has helped hundreds of animals overcome disease. In some cases, Dr. Newman has even healed animals who were so sick that their veterinarians recommended putting the animals to sleep.



In this interview, you'll learn how to start giving your pet the nutrition it needs to avoid disease and live a long, healthy life. You will also discover why you may want to give your dog or cat nutritional supplements, and how to know which ones are best.



These are just a few examples of the fascinating tips Dr. Newman shared with me. Want to learn more? Download "Live with Dr. Lisa Newman" right now and read it yourself:

http://downloads.truthpublishing.com/LiveWithDrLisaNewman.pdf



To your health,


- Mike Adams, the Health Ranger




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[Seaweed]

I'm all for raw feeding cats & dogs. I think you can look up the BARF diet which stands for Bones And Raw Food.

I have to say I seriously question this bit

Even euthanized dogs and cats are "acceptable" ingredients in pet food They use lethal chemicals to euthanase cats & dogs which continue to be lethal in their flesh. I know if you have euthanased a horse by lethal injection you are unable to sell it as pet food.

I would also wonder about pets needing supplements on a raw diet & feeding them something like yukka. But that is just me.

[Wonder-Full]

I'm going to be one of those annoying people who say "but my dog is 14yrs old, never been sick, has always eaten a processed food diet, been vaccinated on schedule every year and is fine and people are surprised at how old he is as he hasn't slowed down yet". (slinks from the room). Sorry, not very helpful of me!

I reckon his long healthy life is mostly because he's a mongrel and not a pure bred...

[Serephina]

Like Seaweed we feed our dogs a raw food diet and they are very happy and healthy.

Wonder-Full I thought my dogs were healthy when they were eating kibble but I definitely noticed a huge increase in vitality, particularly in my older dog, when we switched to BARF. He was running around and jumping like a little puppy again. :giggle: Not suggesting that you should change your dog's diet at 14 y/o, I daresay he might not be too impressed. I am curious as to why you vaccinate your dog but not your children?

[Wonder-Full]

Yes, mine jumps and bounces like a puppy still too, don't know if I could handle more energy from him!

Let's just say that 14yrs ago I didn't think twice about vaccinations etc. As to why I have continued - well, really the main reason is that he goes to the kennels twice a year or so and we couldn't do that without the vaxes. Also, I figure he'd had 8yrs of vaxes by that stage...

[magical1]

It's interesting the dilema you face for your dogs is just like you do for your children...They are such a huge part of the family.

My dogs have had about half their lives on Hills Science and half now off on raw bones, meat, flax seed oil, raw eggs, raw veg and they get colostrum tablets every now and then just because they love them. One was vaccinated for about three years the other only the first year of her life.... They get a bit of garlic thrown in there too as they have no parasite treatment. I haven't noticed a huge difference in energy but what I do notice is any inflamation issues regarding skin cysts, general itching, ear infections, eye infections and any aches and pains that manifested themselves as limping have completly gone away since getting them on a raw diet. Dare I say it they seem less irritated, much more calm. Plus get this they are much more feral when I am in the bush with them. My border terrier climbs trees, but only recently. to see if she can find any rats in the trunks. Very entertaining.

Dogs were never designed to eat the huge amount of carbs that the dry food gives them and not that much dried food fullstop. That is why there are diabetic dogs, arthritic dogs, cancerous dogs... notice that these are human illnesses and we have also given into eating way too many carbs.

My parents gave our cocker spainal when I was growing up supplements everyday and she lived till she was 19! She was ready to go at the end though. In those days they only ate jellimeat and left over veges and left overs from our plates but my Mum chose to supplement.

Who knows what is right and wrong, if only they could talk and tell you how they feel on processed food. Those collars on the movie UP would be great don't you think!!!

I think they thrive on love, exercise, clean water and clean food and if they get plenty of that and you show you care about them they will live long happy lives.

I have a friend who has just changed over to raw food as her dog is just always licking at his paws raw... has itchy ears and they were chopped off (mutilated)as a puppy so not a good thing for him to be itching them till they bleed. I will keep you up with any changes in him if any... he gets an awesome input other than his dried food and it's all organic anyway. But he didn't have a good start with his nutrition and he was moved to the SPCA when they found him on the Petone Foreshore with no ears. they only feed dry there and he was in there for quite a long time to find the best owner for him.

I would love another puppy barefoot... they are such a gift to the family unit. Unfortunatly they are with us for a good time not a long time so we are torn to do the best thing... you will find that. You'll have to send us lots of pictures.

[Barefoot]

Thanks for the replies, we are looking to get Dog from a rescue centre so it probably won't be a puppy and will have been vaxxed but i i don't think we will have any more boosters.
We are not happy about the carbs and cheap flour in the dried dog food so will look into Barf.

[bbrandonsmom]

Here's us. We had 2 dogs that were kibble fed, as I didn't know about the raw diet. After one passed we got another one, and that one couldn't handle any kibble, so I found raw. Immediately he was better and I switched both dogs to it. Both seemed healthier to me. I briefly had to switch back to kibble this year, and the first thing I noticed was the lack of coat luster. The second thing was the huge poo-they have very little of it on raw.
I did vaxs w/ the first 2 until I learned about vaxes through my vet. Our husky also got very sick after a Bordettella and had breathing problems until the day she passed after that. I have to get rabies by law. I have to vax if I'm going to board. Otherwise, we don't do them. When I worked at a vet practice, I saw too many animals develop sarcomas or have allergies etc, which I figured was a combo of bad diet and all the yearly vax.

[Dozytoes]

It's a shame that vaccinations are required to board dogs here. Back in the UK we had many boarding kennels that would accept homoeoprophylaxis in lieu of orthodox vaccinations. We could use those for dog clubs too.

Guess our boy won't be going to a kennel in Australia. :giggle:

[Serephina]

Dozytoes your doggy is gorgeous! And BTW there are kennels in Australia that accept homeoprophylaxis. I have a list somewhere of the ones where I live and I imagine other states would be similar.

[amalie]

This is a really interesting discussion... Like someone said, we can't know what they think or how they feel so you have to go with your own observations.

I'm actually not a fan of BARF diets at all but I have no problem with people using them. We learned at uni from a fantastic nutritionist, that BARF diets done well are brilliant, its just that most people don't do it properly - feeding raw meat and leftovers is not a BARF diet!! But unfortunately that's what a lot of people do. It's actually quite complicated to work out the different dietary constituents and what you can feed them to make these up.
So my dislike of them is only based on personal experience.

By the way I hope everyone knows not to feed cooked bones... once again I had to take a cooked sliver of chickenbone out of a cat's throat the other night, at the same time as I had a dog out the back with a bowel obstruction from ... you guessed it... cooked turkey bones. Save your animals life, yourself some cash and avoid this stuff!!!

I don't vaccinate my dog any more at all. He doesn't go to kennels so I don't have to, even though I can just do it myself. But he is MUCH healthier on his quality dry food than on the crap he was fed when I got him - he's a rescue dog too.
On the topic of dry food, do you differentiate between the cheap stuff you can get at the supermarket vs quality dry food, some of which you can get there but costs a lot more, or from the pet shop or the vet clinic? Just out of interest... I truly believe there is a difference in digestibility and absorbability (and hence residue or poo), but I know some of you have used vet diets in the past and think the raw diet is better.

PS I seriously doubt dog food contains pentobarb - people might wonder why your dog slept a lot or died after eating...

[Japonica]

Barefoot...I don't have a dog but my very good friend back in Canada has a collie who has not been vaxed beyond the first set of shots the breeder gave (no way out of that initial set, but she has refused any additional ones) and he is completely raw food fed...it's also breed-specific if I recall.

I have to say, he's one of the healthiest dogs I've ever seen. And his coat is so soft...not coarse like other collies.

If you'd like PM me and I'll pass along your email to her. She loves talking about raising dogs naturally. We had some great chats about Pottenger's book in view of keeping pets...

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

amalie, how do you see that the BARF diet should be done?

[amalie]

Now that's a good question!
It's not hard, but takes time - once you have it established though it's easy!

Basically:

1. Assess animal to discover nutrient needs. In a nutshell body condition score and health conditions are the two biggies but anything else you think is relevant probably is. Assumption is that organ function is normal if animal looks OK!

2. Determine nutrient value of the foods you offer.

3. Compare 1. with 2. and voila!

It's actually not that difficult but takes a bit of time, and I can easily give anyone who's interested the nutrient values for some comon foods you might use.

Generally a BARF diet should contain:
-a CHO/fibre - a cooked cereal grain
-protein preferably of animal origin. Strictly speaking raw or not is a topical issue due to the food safety issue. If you are careful with prep raw is best.
-fat
-minerals esp calcium
-multivit and trace mineral source

Common problems;
1. substitutions becuase you don't have what's needed in the cupboard, so over time inconsistency becomes the norm.
2. food safety - animals can get salmonella too!!
3. leaving out the expensive bits - the supplements. Remember when you see "essential" it means the animal can't make it in vivo so you must provide it in the diet. eg taurine for cats.

I know people will say they know animals who are on homemade diets that don't follow these rules and they look fantastic. I say that's great, and do what works for you, but I see many more who have horrific health problems on those diets, so IM very HO those animals are the exception not the rule. By a law of averages, if you just feed your animal the most unbalanced, undigestible diet (dry or homemade) out, some hardy beasts will prosper despite it all but most truly honestly won't.

Any Q's please shoot!!

[Tici]

Could you do the BARF diet at night ( I buy the Dr. Ian Billingsworth stuff)

and give your dog a good quality dry food during the day ?

So I mean can you mix it up like that or should you really be sticking to either a raw/ processed-cooked diet ?


How do you know a good quality dry food from a not so good ?

I'm guessing PAL is probably not so good and Royal Canin is good right ? Judging by price ?

[amalie]

You can definitely mix it up.
In theory dogs don't need variety if they are eating a complete, balanced diet and therefore getting all their nutritional needs, but it's not like any one person knows everything about nutrition. So if you want to mix it up, it's not going to hurt them.
It doesn't affect their digestive tract if that is what you are worried about.

The whole point is that you give them a diet that is easily digested by the stomach acids, and then easily absorbed into the blood stream to be used. Generally an easily digestible/absorbable product is more expensive because it costs more to produce and also, there is more R&D invested in them. I"m not going to name names obviously. With pet food, for what it's worth this is one instance I do believe you get what you pay for.

One thing to bear in mind though is palatability - this varies widely and is frustratingly out of your control. You can buy your dog or cat the fanciest food in the world and if they turn their nose up at it in preference for the cheapest home brand variety available from the corner shop there's just nothing you can do ... you just can't win 'em all sometimes! :)

[Tici]

Thanks amalie :)

[Serephina]

Just thought I'd update this thread with our experience with the BARF diet. Our dogs have been raw for nearly two years now and it's the best thing we have done for them.

On our walk tonight we ran into some other people with a golden retriever. Their dog looked quite old and they made comment on how he was an 'old timer' compared to our 'young-un'. I asked them how old their dog was. They said he was five. :blinkee: The same age as my dog, yet this dog was already showing signs of physical degradation while mine is still leaping around like a puppy!


On the topic of dry food, do you differentiate between the cheap stuff you can get at the supermarket vs quality dry food, some of which you can get there but costs a lot more, or from the pet shop or the vet clinic? Just out of interest... I truly believe there is a difference in digestibility and absorbability (and hence residue or poo), but I know some of you have used vet diets in the past and think the raw diet is better.

Sorry amalie I must have missed your post before. Yes, our dog was on the brand name dry food when he was younger. I assume Hills Science Diet and Eukanuba are what you would consider quality brands?

I know many vets aren't a fan of raw diets, however to feed to feed animals a highly processed extruded food-like substance goes against everything I know about nutrition.

[TanyaL]

Barefoot, timely question. I'm just starting to investigate something besides kibble for my two dogs, 10yo and 13yo lab mixes. We're using a brand that seems to be well-regarded among kibbles in the US, the trainer we saw a few years ago for behavior issues recommended it, but I think I can do better. I think they need better--nothing's dramatically wrong, but both have low-level problems. An alternative to barf, which has been discussed and is one of the things I'm looking into, is a raw diet that's described as prey-based. The underlying view seems to be that dogs are carnivores and so attempting to feed them as closely as we can to what they would be hunting/scavenging is most appropriate. It's completely meat-based--muscle, organs and some bones, all raw.

There's a big yahoo group that discusses this, I just joined a couple days ago to try to get a better idea of how this works.

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

[bbrandonsmom]

I used this book-
http://www.kymythy.com/
Natural nutrition for cats and dogs. I found it simple and it broke down everything good. She has charts in the back that break down weight of dog + how much meat/veggie they should get, as well as changing the amount for puppies/older dogs etc. Same for cats. It might seem complicated at first to start raw, but once you get the hang of it, it's simple, at least to me. Most of the mal/husky owners I know, feed raw. Our dogs are a bit different in that they can tolerate more fish in the diet, so I'd suggest any breed of dog you get, to look at it's breed make up to see what types of food it would have eaten, if that makes sense.
Our general food bowls consist of meat/poulty/fish/pork-I usually get better deals at the market than the butcher, some raw veggies and some yogurt or cottage cheese occasionally. They also get raw cow bones to chew on. We've not had any health issues with our dogs since starting this diet 2 yrs ago.

[Merry]

I would like some help, if anyone has any suggestions that would be great.

We are about to adopt an SPCA puppy, well she is 5 months old and has been with the SPCA since she was the size of your hand, found abandoned on the side of the road :cry2:.

Unforunately she has had the micro-chipping, vaxing etc and they also require that you have them spayed. How can I care for her post op? Does anyone know of any homepathic remedies and also what I could apply to her wound?

thanks

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

I think your first step is to look at her diet. BARF plus home made dog biscuits, and it's amazing how well these dogs bounce back. Then, good training, and she will be as good as you can get her. Often it's the basics that really count.