varicella survival on surfaces

[RandomName]

Does anyone know how long varicella lives on surfaces? I've spent quite a while searching and got a lot of junk results. The best I found was at http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/msds-ftss/msds161e-eng.php , which said "for short periods". (meaning seconds? minutes? hours? :gaah: )

[MinorityView]

Transmission
Infection with VZV occurs through the respiratory tract. The most common mode of transmission of VZV is believed to be person to person from infected respiratory tract secretions. Transmission may also occur by respiratory contact with airborne droplets or by direct contact or inhalation of aerosols from vesicular fluid of skin lesions of acute varicella or zoster.

from the CDC Pink Book chapter on Varicella.


Varicella is highly contagious. It is less contagious than measles, but more so than mumps and rubella. Secondary attack rates among susceptible household contacts of persons with varicella are as high as 90% (that is, 9 of 10 susceptible household contacts of persons with varicella will become infected).

same source

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/varicella.pdf

I couldn't find a definite statement on survival on surfaces, either.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Varicella-zoster virus (http://www.springerlink.com/index/x521k436228jp571.pdf)
AA Gershon, P LaRussa, SP Steinberg - Manual of Clinical Microbiology - Springer
... Fortunately, the virus is rather labile, so it is not spread on clothing or other fomites. Transmission
requires direct contact with an infected individual in the early stages of illness. Persons with zoster
are capable of transmitting VZV to varicella susceptibles, although zoster patients ...
Cited by 89 (http://beyondvaccination.com/scholar?cites=14572223494059530283&hl=en&as_sdt=2000) - Related articles (http://beyondvaccination.com/scholar?q=related:KxgFlw_wOsoJ:scholar.google.com/&hl=en&as_sdt=2000) - All 8 versions (http://beyondvaccination.com/scholar?cluster=14572223494059530283&hl=en&as_sdt=2000)

http://www.bhchp.org/BHCHP%20Manual/pdf_files/Part1_PDF/HerpesZoster.pdf

:previous: This has a bit about it's fragile nature, but that it can remain on clothing..

One of the papers which came up was most interesting. Just makes you realise how much medical history is based on assumption.

http://www.rcpe.ac.uk/journal/issue/journal_39_3/stride.pdf

Personally I believe that the varicella virus lasts on surfaces a lot longer than they realise:

:previous: http://journals.pasteur.ac.ir/JMV_2001/v63/64.pdf

[RandomName]

I couldn't find a definite statement on survival on surfaces, either.

Thanks for trying. :hug2:I feel better knowing I wasn't the only one. :)

[RandomName]

Vocab of the day: fomite. :chuckle:

Thank you very much!!! :hail: your searching prowess! :clap: How did you find those results?

Those poor people on St. Kilda. :sadsmiley02:

At this point, I'm thinking that I should not take my kids to the store (or various other places, except something like a walk outside) starting about 8 days after known exposure to chickenpox (based on the 10-day lower range of incubation, minus the couple of days people can shed virus before showing symptoms).

Since I had chickenpox when I was 18, I should be ok to go out without spreading contagion at any point, provided that I've washed my hands and don't snuggle babies or hug immunocompromised people against my fomites, errr, clothing.

Any feedback on this conclusion would be much appreciated.

One thing that gives me a little pause is that a naturopathic doctor friend said her infectious disease book said chickenpox can be contagious as soon as 4 days after exposure. I don't doubt that her book said that, but have not been able to find any source with such a short timeframe; the closest is Dr. Sears saying 7 days (unreferenced), but general consensus of sources is 10-21 days, with 14-17 most common. I do want to be careful, particularly since a child at our church has been receiving treatment for cancer so I assume she is significantly immunocompromised.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Because I knew the right words to use. aka "fomite". I used the words varicella fomite duration and various other combinations. If you sound scientific then you pick up all those people who swallow the dictionary routinely. :woohoo_2:

I would say stay well away from anyone like the child with cancer. I'd stop going to church for around three weeks, and to err on the side of caution don't go anywhere public after seven days.

You know what will happen though. :D

Of course :ein: THIS TIME, :angry015: your children won't get chickenpox and you'll be waiting until the next time.

maybe :D

[RandomName]

Because I knew the right words to use. aka "fomite". I used the words varicella fomite duration and various other combinations.
Thanks! Note to self: work on vocabulary! :chuckle:


I'd stop going to church for around three weeks, and to err on the side of caution don't go anywhere public after seven days. Will do, thank you.



Of course :ein: THIS TIME, :angry015: your children won't get chickenpox and you'll be waiting until the next time.

maybe :DLALALA I CAN'T HEEEAAAAR YOU!!!!!:no: hmmph.

At least maybe I'll get my long-term house organization ideas done, dare I hope....

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

:previous: Hope away :righton:

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

did you get chickenpox after all that?

[RandomName]

Thanks for asking. I think the kids are showing the first sign of spots today (day 16 since exposure). Tomorrow it should be obvious whether or not that's the case.

And I got a few spots that look like theirs. That's not supposed to be possible for me to get chickenpox again. I'm holding onto faint hope that my spots are something else with hugely coincidental timing and appearance, that anxiety is somehow making me see more similarities than really are there. I've been feeling itchy, but since that sensation went through the roof after I saw my spots, I can probably chalk that up primarily to anxiety.

Seriously, I shouldn't be able to get chickenpox again. When I was 18 I had a full-blown case (which all my siblings got from me). I'm not immunocompromised. The couple of titers I've had as an adult (for rubella and tetanus) showed "good" antibody levels (according to testing norms, anyway), so I've no reason to think that my body doesn't make antibodies after exposure to stuff.

I was lovingly reminded on the other thread that stress does me no good. So I'm trying to roll with it.

I hate anxiety. Hate it. :gaah:

Now I need to go try :sleep: That's about as easy as not stressing right now. Gonna try though...if I succeed, at least I won't have to stress about stressing my immune system from lack of sleep. Brain, listen to the logic...

[RandomName]

So like an idiot, instead of immediately heading to bed, first I did a quick search for more info hoping for something reassuring...and almost immediately ran across something about a 45-y-o father of 3 who got chickenpox, with the complication of encephalitis, and then wound up in a nursing home.:killcomputer:

:smash: for me. I KNOW better than to search things I'm freaking out about. There's always some stupid horror story that sticks in my mind, only with pictures of the scenario applied to myself. :cripes:

Sorry about the vent. Really going to log off now.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

:smash:Now listen to me. what good is stressing out about this? How can that possibly make things better. ... AND... why are you hardwired to assume the worst, instead of assuming the best.

it could be that the chickenpox they have is vaccine-induced chickenpox. Why would you assume you would have immunity to that? the vaccine virus is different enough that some people will get chickenpox from it.

Besides which, you could be like my perfectly healthy friend who had mumps five time. first on the left, next on the right, third both sides, fourth on the left, fifth on the right, and while we joked that the sixth time would be both, she never managed to achieve 6 goes at it.

The immune system is designed to do a job.

and if you want to freak yourself out, do you realise that about 55 people in USA die every year by being hit by lightning?

There now. You should feel better.

Just get on with it, relax, and go with the flow, okay?

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Right now. In terms of you, use liposomal vitamin C if you're not feeling like eating, or are a bit quesy and read the attached pdf. Okay?

[RandomName]

Thanks. No good stressing. Need to rewire brain.

Funny on the mumps!

Didn't know that about the vaccine strain being so different. hmm.

I reviewed the sticky, and downloading the pdf, thank you.

I'm super tired and my mind isn't thinking well now, but I've also had nausea all morning, plus my digestive system completely cleared out. So I"m thinking maybe this is a different virus, which could also produce just a few bumps of rash? dh had nausea a couple of days ago, maybe he brought home some bug from work, and the timing is just coincidental.

ought to go try to sleep now. thanks again.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

That's what the immune system does isn't it. Shuts the brain down and tells you to go to sleep. Sleep is the way the immune system gets to do it's thing unimpeded.

If your kids sleep along with you, all the better :bighug:

[bbrandonsmom]

How goes it over there? Is it CP? My ds's pox are almost all scabbed over now or healing up. Waiting now for ds2 pox to come out. He's been up/down fever the past few days and cold symptoms. It's been long days and nights here.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

But it will soon be over bbrandonsmom :D

[bbrandonsmom]

Lol-yay, pox came yesterday. That's 2wks after our other ds pox started :)

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Has the sky fallen on the world yet? :D

[bbrandonsmom]

Nah :) Dh-who never had them-has them now too. Oh boy. Nothing like taking care of sick Man-now the sky will fall.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

aye. Read him chicken licken... :D

[RandomName]

Doing ok here, thanks! Sorry, I was offline a while there.

Upshot is, I definitely was sick with some sort of virus when I last posted. Lasted about a week. If it was chickenpox or not, I don't know. The timing would have been spot on (ha!), and we each had a few spots that were not something usual. Then again, other viruses can cause rashes and illness too.

If the kids had chickenpox, it was very mild cases. I'm probably going to get them titered in about 6 weeks to find out, since I want their vit D levels checked anyway (might as well combine blood draws so they're not stuck unnecessarily).

Anyway, thanks much for the advice and hand-holding. I needed it. But we're doing better now.