a pertussis toxin question

[TanyaL]

I've tried googling, and I'm getting nowhere, I would love some guidance on how to search better. In terms of liver detox pathways, stuff like methylation and sulfation and glutathione conjugation, does anyone know how the pertussis toxin is excreted? It makes sense that the vitamin C helped with this, but it seems there's got to be another path, since most people don't take lots of C and they live.

No, not a vital question, but I am so curious and my search yielded zip.

In November, the kids (ages 3yo and 5yo) got a coughing illness, it was manageable and they, and we the parents, got through it fine, but I'm left with a lot of curiosity. The timing of the "cold" beforehand, the coughing-til-vomiting that DD did (which she's never done before), the duration and annoying-ness of the cough make me think it was pertussis. Both kids fit in the range of typical for how it presents in kids their ages.

But the weirdest thing is, both kids ran low on zinc. We have health issues, I supplement zinc on an ongoing basis, and this is the first illness either has had that has caused low zinc symptoms (and I upp'd their zinc and the symptoms went away, so I think I'm right). DS gets sick a lot, I'm not used to very many firsts with him. :chuckle:

I'm trying to figure out why, and my only guess, and it may be completely wrong, is that somehow the method we excrete the toxin is zinc-dependent, or maybe it was another pathway that shifted the pre-existing burden toward another pathway (we have detoxification issues, so the kids' bodies are pretty busy on any ordinary day).

I know this is a really specific, odd question, but I haven't come across any clues on my own, so I wanted to see if anyone had any suggestions, even possibilities that I could look into.

Thx.

[gilima]

how did you know they were depleting their zinc during the illness? did you do some kind of home test? I suspect low zinc in 2 of my kids (one had lots of food intolerences and allergies....gut issues) and I also started supplementing him with zinc q while ago and he has come a long way with what he can eat.
This is very interesting.
Isn't vitamin A the main one that gest depleted during illness (besides C) ??

[TanyaL]

Both my kids mouth things when they're low on zinc, DD did it since she was very little, so it took a long time for me to figure it out, but DS has only done it a couple times (periods of time, I mean), and I've understood the reasons then. Fingers in their mouths, toys, DS will sometimes put his mouth on things, like on a window or the front of the frig. I hear some kids mouth things when they're low on iron but that's never been our issue as far as I can tell.

My kids haven't had that many other symptoms, good growth, stuff like that, so figuring out our particular symptoms took a while.

I would've expected the vitamin A to be an issue, I've actually seen it be a problem for DS before--when he got better after I gave him a lot, not that I could see specific symptoms for that one--but the zinc was unexpected. Between the kids' symptoms fitting into the general presentation of WC and the fact that dealing with the toxin is a big part of handling this illness, and we're low on zinc due to detoxification problems, it seems like this should fit together somehow, but my understanding is fuzzy at this point.

Good to hear you're seeing improvements!

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

http://www.austincc.edu/rfofi/BIO2305/2305LecNotes/2305Immuno.DOC Word document.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

However, it's more complex than that. Antibodies aren't the only source of protection against toxins, or we'd all be dead. So for instance in terms of e.coli in the gut, or any gram negative bacteria, the kuppfer cells are very important. Kuppfer cells also come into play with pertussis toxins - but the use of vitamin C is quite different.

Perhaps you should buy Dr Levy's book on vitamin c toxins and infectious diseases.

Also read this: http://www.thorne.com/media/alternative_medicine_review/1998/Volume_3/Number_3/Detoxification_Enzymes.pdf

[TanyaL]

Thank you for the links MT, I am starting to read, but if this Thorne link is any like the last I tried, well, it was a slog for my vocabulary.

Wow, I just skimmed the word doc, it's a primer on all the immune system terms that I've never sorted out from each other. Thank you!