Reflux/GERD at my wits end

[Paper Cut]

Any ideas on what I can try next?

I have suffered from GERD for about the last :dry: at least 7? years off an on... Initially I was on the high powered "Dr recommended" Proton pump inhibitor's which although YES they took away the GERD they also had a lot of nasty side effects! I went cold turkey off those after about 1.5 years on them.. and that did the world of good.. for a few years my GERD totally disappeared.. then came back.. then gone.. and now its back again *sigh* (oh back when this all started I was tested for the gut bacteria H.P something and that came back negative... being drs however they treated me for it regardless with losec and high powered antibiotics.. all that gave them was a massive allergic reaction - lets just say this was in my younger years (early 20's) when I trusted dr's)

I have done food elimination and worked out that the only thing that causes it to flare up is Garlic... this is the only edible thing that gives me pretty much instant reflux. The main problem how ever is its pretty random when it does strike.. I can go weeks without it.. and very BAD days with it, then a month free of it then its back in full force.

I have tried -

Anti Acids (some work some dont.. but 9/10 of them also contain aspartame now days and I am sensitive to that and other things I have read about them have put me off using them!)

Apple Cider Vinegar (during a flare up this makes it worse, when I'm not having reflux at the time I can drink it neat if I wanted with no problems)

Aloe Vera Juice - Works well to sooth some times

Eating gut bacteria friendly foods - works (and is pretty much our diet being Paleo anyway) but not consistently

Acupressure points - haha

Homeopathic Remedies - don't work on me full stop.


I think the only thing I haven't tried yet are high powered Probiotics, which is my next step.

So... any ideas? what haven't I tried that u think may help? there has to be an underlying problem because its not just reflux.. but when it happens its like my tummy is "boiling" if that makes sense.. but I seem to be chasing my tail finding answers on the net. :blue:

[MinorityView]

Well, raw garlic causes me misery, too, which is a shame because I adore pesto. But it doesn't reach the level of what you are describing. It sounds as though you can eat garlic some of the time and then other times it is a disaster?

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

I'll ask a few people I know...

[Paper Cut]

Well, raw garlic causes me misery, too, which is a shame because I adore pesto. But it doesn't reach the level of what you are describing. It sounds as though you can eat garlic some of the time and then other times it is a disaster?

No I cant eat it at all now... but this is a new problem... as at a few months ago.. all of a sudden eating anything with garlic (and used to eat a lot semi raw in my stirfry's) will set it off almost instantly.. so I eliminated all garlic and instantly no more reflux for a month.. now its back.. off and on but its back.. I woke up this morning with a bad case.. but its eased off since I had a coffee that was mostly whole milk.

Garlic was the only trigger I could find.. the rest of the time it seems pretty random... I am starting to wonder if the valve at the esophagus/stomach is loose or something... sitting here now I can feel my tummy is starting to do its "boiling" thing and its starting to creep up my throat again.

Hilary - thanks :) will look forward to any suggestions!

[Paper Cut]

Had some success with Coconut oil last 48 hours but ran out this afternoon (must order more)

Now on a different track of liver detox with milk thistle to see if I have a liver issue going on *sigh*

Had to have a nasty anti acid with aspartame in it (its all that works) so siting here shaking like mad but no acid LOL sucky trade off.

[Paper Cut]

I'm on to a new tract.... I am convinced I have the Helicobacter Pylori bacteria... I have been reading all day :blinkee:

I'm on a raft of supplements to control my Fibro.. and all of a sudden I am getting symptoms back, these only show up if I run out of, or forget to take my supps (which is very rare) but something is stopping my body absorbing these things.. nullifying them if u will, and my hubby is exhibiting similar tummy "issues".... so its either H/Pylori (for both of us) or Leaky gut (+h/p for me).. either way the treatment is the same... Coconut oil (which i did get relief from) and a low carb low sugar diet (perfect already Paleo)

Crossing fingers .. big time. :willynilly:

[MinorityView]

interesting! I've read that many people have H Pylori without problems, but if it gets out of control it causes illness. Good luck!

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

papercut, there might be even more behind this than you thought. Perhaps a book you need to track down is this one:

Unfortunately it requires gold to get hold of a copy:

http://www.amazon.com/Relatively-Speaking-Family-Better-Health/dp/B000MC6W5S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1271644992&sr=1-1

But it could provide vital clues as to what is really going on here.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Here is a pdf by the author:


I'm reading this book at the moment, and will post a book review once I've finished.

[Paper Cut]

papercut, there might be even more behind this than you thought. Perhaps a book you need to track down is this one:

Unfortunately it requires gold to get hold of a copy:

http://www.amazon.com/Relatively-Speaking-Family-Better-Health/dp/B000MC6W5S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1271644992&sr=1-1

But it could provide vital clues as to what is really going on here.


:thud: GOld is right! $109 for a used one *Faints* I will do a torrent search later and see if I can find a ebook copy....

Interestingly I have my family tree back to 1575 (on one side of course my maternal grandfather) and I am unable to trace the other side as my grandfather on that side was left on a local family's door step at a few days old and he was raised as their own.. so no idea 'who' he really was.

But... I can say for certain that on the other side at least there was no illness until my mothers generation... My grandfather had a touch of agoraphobia (which I also have along with the rest haha) from my mothers generation we have 3 girls.. 2x with fibro... with one of them being a polio vax survivor... then from us kids I am the only one with fibro that I know of... (but then I am also the only vax'd one)

I am really trying to think back with my fish bowl memory to work out when this "tummy/reflux" issue started back up again (My plunket book states I was also a bad 'reflux baby')... and so far my husband has worked out that when i was regularly taking C/Oil I had no issues..

But this is just nasty.. its Like being back 7 odd years ago when this first started when nothing works to stop the burning :wimp:

[Paper Cut]

O M G - I just got a copy off TradeMe for $15!!!!!

*promptly faints*

[MinorityView]

OT note on the used book market...

prices can vary wildly. apparently people see that there are few or no copies available, so someone will put up a book at a very high price and occasionally someone will actually pay this price, but generally what occurs is that other people proceed to add copies to the pool and the price slides back down again.

Never assume that the high priced edition is the only one available!

[Barefoot]

Have you tried the master herb, cayenne pepper drinks?
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/331946/cayenne_pepper_and_wonder_drug.html?cat=22

[Paper Cut]

Have you tried the master herb, cayenne pepper drinks?
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/331946/cayenne_pepper_and_wonder_drug.html?cat=22

Cant eat any of the hot spices at the moment either.. chili or cayenne are in garlics boat at the moment.


I had a better day yesterday sucking on 9000+ active manuka lozenges most of the day.. but a pretty bad night which resorted to using Gavascon *yuck*

Hopefully My Coconut oil order turns up today.

[Serephina]

Have you considered seeing a Herbalist? There are lots of herbs that can be helpful for GERD, whether due to high stomach acid, or more commonly low acid conditions.

[Paper Cut]

Have you considered seeing a Herbalist? There are lots of herbs that can be helpful for GERD, whether due to high stomach acid, or more commonly low acid conditions.


No not at the mo I haven't considered that... I am pretty convinced I have H.Pylori as so far the anti bacterial honey is doing a great job. thanks for the suggestion though :)

[Serephina]

I'm glad the manuka is working for you. Keep in mind that H. pylori needs the right conditions in the stomach in order to flourish so addressing stomach function is also important.

[Paper Cut]

I'm glad the manuka is working for you. Keep in mind that H. pylori needs the right conditions in the stomach in order to flourish so addressing stomach function is also important.

Cheers... I now spend my entire life addressing any body function :) I have to because anything HAS the right conditions in my body to flourish if I am not careful.. Homeostasis is not easily achieved in my body... At least I understand it more now days.. thinking back I now realize WHY i had such a crap child hood with so much illness.

[gilima]

mt, really interesting stuff, wow! I was just scanning and my eyes were drawn to the color blindness in families( I think 3 of my brothers have this, I have 4 brothers)

Can't we kinda change or stop most of the stuff we "inherit" with nutrition, as in eating nutrient dense foods and finding out our deficiencies and addressing those, changing our "lifestyles" using foods and herbs and homeopathy, accupucture, cranio sacral etc; to treat underlying issues etc;

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

mt, really interesting stuff, wow! I was just scanning and my eyes were drawn to the color blindness in families( I think 3 of my brothers have this, I have 4 brothers)

Can't we kinda change or stop most of the stuff we "inherit" with nutrition, as in eating nutrient dense foods and finding out our deficiencies and addressing those, changing our "lifestyles" using foods and herbs and homeopathy, accupucture, cranio sacral etc; to treat underlying issues etc;

Yes, and that's what Relatively speaking is all about. by eliminating foods which trigger the formation of auto-antibodies, or block the absorption of vitamins and minerals, and replacing those vitamins and minerals which your body was craving for. The beauty of "Relatively Speaking..." is the case histories. The genetics is going to require serious work in my brain to sort that out, becuase with my immunodeficiency being autosomal recessive, I really need to work this out.

[Paper Cut]

My coconut products arrived early this AM... I've had a few small spoons of the oil and a few of the Creamed Coconut (heaven on a spoon) and since lunch time... No tummy ache.. NO reflux.. first time I've had relief in 2 weeks.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

good one :)

[Paper Cut]

had a bad night, but better than most... but doing ok again this morning after more C/Oil *wipes brow*

[Paper Cut]

:cry2: I'm back to square one... I can't understand this... After 3 perfectly feeling fine days when I started back on the C/Oil I have had the last 18 hours in agony.. and nothings changed.. not the food I am eating, the supps I am taking, other than starting the CO oil on Wednesday which was a good thing.

And this time its back in full force with the stomach pain... which can only be described as.. a hot, tight, sometimes gnawing pain and reflux flooding my throat...... My hubby had a brain wave last night also, he mentioned that when this problem 'flares up' my tummy stops making its usual noises (I normally have a noisy tummy, normal digestive sounds, air moving round etc) .. well hes right... its almost like my digestion is grinding to a halt.

Looks like I am hitting google again today!:duh:

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Okay, so do you need to look at HcL and digestive enzymes for a while??

[Paper Cut]

Okay, so do you need to look at HcL and digestive enzymes for a while??

hmm yes have come to the conclusion that I am going to give enzyme therapy a shot, if for no other reason than to try and sort out my gut health.

From todays googling my symptoms -now- all match Gastritis


If the esophageal sphincter fails to do its job properly, some stomach acid can escape up the esophagusyes, ouch and double ouch. This causes very painful "heartburn" or "gastritis" in the chest as the esophageal walls are eroded by the hydrochloric acid.Yep, I have a horribly raw and scratchy throat Chronic gastritis refers to a wide range of problems of the gastric tissues that are the result of H. pylori infection.Highly possible I have/had this[2] The immune system makes proteins and antibodies that fight infections in the body to maintain a homeostatic condition.

with the following being the treatment


Treatment includes taking antacids or other medicinesno thanks, such as proton pump inhibitors or antibiotics this is what made me extremely sick last time round, and avoiding hot or spicy foodsother than pepper I'm doing that already (cuts out pepper too)

after reading this today I am actually starting to wonder if my other "flare ups" over the last 7 years have been 'gastritis' rather than just reflux as drs and others have said.. I mean heart burn (which is what a dr calls 'reflux') is pretty mild in comparison to your tummy trying to chew it self into a knot and acid slowly burning a hole in your esophagus!.

SO gastritis... I don't want to do orthidox treatment - been there done that still have 400 somac in the box! having too little stomach acid (due to the PPI's) is worse than having too much! .. so what are my natural options? .. Would SA be of any benefit here (if after all we are dealing with a bacterial infection of the stomach lining)

I have to make dinner for the masses now.. so I shall continue "alternative" treatment 'hunting' later on. :alien:

[Mr. Beyondtheory]

In recent years I've had a fairly bad acid reflux problem. It has eaten out the enamel on 3 of my back molars, caused a lot of damage.

My dentist finally worked it out after a few years of telling me I must be drinking or eating something very acidic, even though I totally avoid things like coke, and don't drink cows milk or eat much cheeze (really good acid reflux triggers).

I believe it is due to weak stomach acid in my case, poor digestion, due to a somewhat poorly functioning liver.

There seem to be no easy one shop answers. I've found aloe vera juice is good at controlling it to some extent, but definitely not a cure seemingly. Smaller meals, esp. dinner, help a bit. Exercise helps a bit.

But I am still getting it. I wonder if eating a diet that is too acidic is contributing. Could this be your problem Papercut? One thing I found that definitely seems to work quite well, but which is not for the faint hearted, is a practice called Laghoo from Yoga. It involves swallowing 6 cups of salted tepid water first thing in the morning; then going to the bathroom (showerbox) and putting fingers down the throat to induce vomiting up again of the water. It seems to get rid of the "acid" in the stomach somehow, and brings up old mucus too. For a few days afterwards I get no acid reflux, in my experience. I hate vomiting, and you may too, so maybe this is not an option. I hardly ever do it.

[Paper Cut]

Hello Mr BeyondTheory :) My Acid prob seems to be "over production" its why I've always had PPI's thrown my way when it reared its ugly head like this.. Its only now all these years on - with my lack of trust of the medical profession now days - that I have actually stood back and tried to tackle WHY this is happening as its not a continuous problem... its like I have 'flare ups' of it every 4-6 months (the best was a 2 year break with NO problems) with it being really hard to control.. this is the first time I haven't downed the 'drugs' which turn off acid production making life hell (low acid is worse than to much IMO)

oooh ick.. no I couldn't do the vomit thing... had meningitis as a kid and had really REALLY bad vomiting with that.. I sort of have a little bit of a phobia about it now days lol

I've been doing gastritis treatment since last night and am feeling a bit better today, sparkling spring water seems to be a god send, it seems to be quite soothing on the tummy lining... I was even brave and managed some spiced butter chicken today (not gastritis friendly I know) and so far no reflux and just the usual, inflamed feeling tummy ache. My throat is still quite raw, it feels like there is still acid there but I know there isnt.. its just raw from the last 2 weeks of constantly being burnt I think. I would say with the pain the way it is and where it is.. from my readings I am pretty close to ulcer territory (been there before) so working out why and knocking it on the head now is important.

I didn't find the aloe Vera much use either.. all though it was FANTASTIC for loosening/thinning mucus (Post Nasal drip is a pain in the bum) worked much better than vit c/SA

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

What a funny mind picture. Post nasal drip in the bum...

[Mr. Beyondtheory]

Hi again Papercutter.

I must admit I do think there is some truth in the Ayurvedic idea that acid reflux comes from having too much pitta or heat in the body. If I grind up some black peppercorns or eat horseradish (just dug some from my garden the other day) then whoooah!!! the acid reflux is much worse.

So according to Ayurveda you have to avoid the hot spices (and I think garlic would be so categorised), and use more soothing cooling spices like cardamon, and coriander.

They say too that acid reflux, even when you have so called low stomach acidity is due really to the high volume but low quality of the stomach acid. Perhaps this is your problem too? So the idea is to get the digestion to be stronger. This is why exercise helps, eating more raw easily digested food helps, and taking enzyme tablets helps.

I have found enzyme tablets do help.

But I am a bit desperate so am going to try doing laghoo again, and see what happens. I do want to keep my poor old teeth..:tear:..Rather vomit up now and again than pay big dental bills!!

[Paper Cut]

What a funny mind picture. Post nasal drip in the bum...

LOL that would just be messy not funny :bl2:


Hi again Papercutter.

I must admit I do think there is some truth in the Ayurvedic idea that acid reflux comes from having too much pitta or heat in the body. If I grind up some black peppercorns or eat horseradish (just dug some from my garden the other day) then whoooah!!! the acid reflux is much worse.

yeah I have found when I am having a flair up and am at my worst.. hot spices and garlic are pure evil.


So according to Ayurveda you have to avoid the hot spices (and I think garlic would be so categorised), and use more soothing cooling spices like cardamon, and coriander.

Thats interesting... my butter chicken yesterday had about 1/4c fresh coriander in it.. I wonder if that could be part of the reason it didnt give me greif


I have found enzyme tablets do help.
I have some in my cart to import with my next order from the states.. I will also get my hubby on them and see if it solves his problem with drinking milk.

Thanks for your suggestions and commiserations lol glad I am not the only one out there with this but wish neither of us had to deal with it :suspicious:

I've been reflux free for 30 odd hours now... still have the dull pit of the stomach pain and the odd gnawing feeling.. but I think *crosses fingers and eyes* might be on top of THIS flair up.

[Mr. Beyondtheory]

Yes, good luck with that.

Coriander seeds...very good for pitta types apparently. The leaves also take mercury out of our bodies!

I did the laghoo thing yesterday morning, and did notice the acid reflux was a bit better last night. I did laghoo again this morning (a sign of how desperate I am) and so we'll see what happens tonight. Man, I have to say, the salted water I brought up these last two mornings was so acidy in taste.

I think I am going to have to do some research into whether there is some amazing herb out there that can help. :confused2:

[Paper Cut]

I think I am going to have to do some research into whether there is some amazing herb out there that can help. :confused2:

From what I have read its Aloe.. but .. not the juice (in the bottles) the actual flesh from the plant eaten on an empty stomach it can heal (the issues I have) and stop reflux in its tracks.. but I cant seem to grow the stuff in large enough quantities or find the large type thats grown in the states (looks like a HUGE spiky thick flax plant sort of - that size anyway)

[Mr. Beyondtheory]

Yes, there are many sorts of aloe. I have been given a couple of aloes that are supposed to be the right sort. They are bigger than usual, and spikey. If you live near Auckland you can have one of them. I can't plant them as no room.

I still think there must be other plants out there. Nature is so beneficent and multifarious. I've got a big book out of the library on all the rainforest herbs. It is amazing what they can do.

I wonder if noni juice might help. It is a real cure all.

[Serephina]

I think I am going to have to do some research into whether there is some amazing herb out there that can help. :confused2:

See my post a couple of pages back. There are. Not just one, but quite a few.

[Mr. Beyondtheory]

I had a look Serephina (Isn't that the name of a woman in the Bible in Acts (New Testament), who is struck dead along with her husband for lying & not giving over all her money over to the 12 disciples (after they'd sold their property) ?) but couldn't see a list of herbs you gave.

Anyway, sorry, I made a mistake. The yoga practice I referred to is not called Laghoo, but is called "Kunjal".

[Serephina]

I had a look Serephina but couldn't see a list of herbs you gave.

I didn't give a list. I suggested consulting with someone knowledgeable about herbs for advice on what would be best for your particular situation. The herbs that will be suitable for one person may be aggravate another depending on many different factors - whether the condition is due to low stomach acid (most common) or too much acid, whether H. pylori is present or not (most common in a low acid environment), the basic constitution of the person, other health complaints, whether you are taking any other medication that might interact etc.


Isn't that the name of a woman in the Bible in Acts (New Testament), who is struck dead along with her husband for lying & not giving over all her money over to the 12 disciples (after they'd sold their property?

Not as far as I know, but then I'm certainly no biblical scholar.