Progesterone Cream

[ZGT Mummy]

Hi all :wave:

I have been AWOL for quite some time now, for a mixture of reasons, and even now I'm still not able to spend the time in here I would like to.

And so I sheepishly ask for help, even though I've not been pulling my own weight of late!

I'll try to keep it brief as I need to get to bed!

I have been diagnosed with depression - and I totally agree with the diagnosis! Many, many things have been going on in my life recently and add to that baggage that I have carried but not dealt with from my childhood have led to my current situation.

Anyway, I have refused SSRI's, just don't want them. I am starting down the counselling route and I'm hopeful this will help address some of the issues that have led to the depression.

My GP, who is recommended by Leila so is probably the best I'll get in terms of alternative suggestions, has checked my Vit D levels and even after 2 months of supplementing with 2000iu and in summer, my levels did not increase at all. So he has me on 50,000iu taken once a week.

The other thing he has prescribed is progesterone cream. I have done my research on the hormone progesterone and how it works in the body so I understand that it is a natural anti-depressant, but I have also read some stuff about the cream not being so safe due to build up in fat over time.

The other thing I'm concerned about is the effect of using the cream on breastfeeding and if any effects can be passed through the milk to my DD.

My cycles are very long and irregular. My GP commented that I probably wasn't ovulating, but the thing is I track my cycles as birth control and I'm pretty sure I do as I notice the change in cervical mucus, and I also get dull aching pains, and sometimes sharp pains, for a few hours, then 12-13 days later I start menstruating. So to me it all fits but possibly I'm getting all the symptoms without actually releasing an egg??? My knowledge doesn't extend to analysing that one!

The more I read the more confused I get as one thing contradicts another, yet it everytime I read something it does make sense to me at the time.

So I guess I'm wondering if anyone can help with the questions I have in my head, like is it safe, is it safe for breastfeeding, can some side effects be passed through my milk to my DD, will it affect my cycles, will it actually help with depression (the one thing all the various sources of info have agreed on is that it does help with depression).

If anyone knows where I can get definitive answers for some or all of these questions I'd appreciate it as google is driving me insane (as if I wasn't already there!). I just don't know which sources to trust and which to give a wide berth.

My apologies again for not coming here as often as I should be, I'm hoping that in the coming months I will be able to sort things out and start to join in a bit more often!

Right best get to bed, one of my big problems is exhaustion. DD is still waking several times a night so I should be in bed now seeing as she's currently asleep!

[TanyaL]

I can't provide definitive answers, I can share the links between things that have been involved for me--it's not all the same as you though.

First, depression sucks, I'm glad you've got some ideas to work on and a HCP to work with, and you're feeling good enough to search out more ideas.

Progesterone's part of how our BBTs go up after we ovulate. Do you take your temps, or can you start? Things were more obviously connected for me--my luteal phase was way too short, my BBTs were barely staying above coverline after ovulation, sometimes they weren't, and for me, I remember reading overlaps between adrenal fatigue and low progesterone, and I knew my adrenals were really worn down. And there were overlaps with my ridiculously low cholesterol as well--and now I don't remember which way all the links went, but it all told a consistent story--so maybe some of those other pieces will help tell your story.

It sounds like you're ovulating, so that sounds like a 12-13 day LP and that seems very reasonable to me, but maybe your progesterone could be low even with a good LP.

I don't know how to weigh the risks vs benefits of supplemental progesterone. I think a lot of hormones were off in me when I was breastfeeding DS, and probably supplementing some and somehow magically reducing others probably would've made for a mix of hormones that's closer to what healthy women would have in their milk, but I'm not sure how being chemically off affected him, or will affect him later in life.

For me, it was a lot of tangible things involved in my depression. I was low in lots of nutrients, and gluten messes with me big-time. Just removing gluten and dairy didn't normalize my moods when I first started gfdf, but after working on my health for a couple years, I tried eating gluten after the kids were in bed for a couple months and that alone was enough to make me depressed (and going off made me un-depressed).

This tree shows some of the nutrients, I used fairly high dose multivits to help get me back to something closer to normal/healthy... and it may be something to consider in addition to counseling, to work together.
http://www.understand-andcure-anxietyattacks-panicattacks-depression.com/5-htp-Melatonin.html

I can't comment on the causality they discuss, my nutrients were out of whack for different reasons than they mention, but those are a lot of the vits/mins that the kids and I are taking the most of.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Has your doctor done a nutrient profile on you?

Google Magnesium and depression.

From what I know of you, I bet you are chronically magnesium deficient.

I read about hormone cream, refused to do it, and scrubbed it off my cranial soft-drive, so can't contribute in a meaningful way with regard to that.

[Serephina]

Sorry I don't know much about progesterone cream so can't answer your questions on that. The fact that you are menstruating, albeit irregularly, suggests that you are most probably ovulating. What reason did the Dr have to suggest that you are not? A common sign of low progesterone is a short luteal phase (less than 10 days), but from what you've written your luteal phase is usually 12-13 days.

My first thought like MT was magnesium. The fact that your vitamin D levels are not increasing with supplementation as they should is a clue. Magnesium is the most important co-factor for vitamin D. Worth checking out I think.

Other than that some other natural supplements you might want to look into (or perhaps seek the advice of a naturopath or herbalist) commonly used for depression are Hypericum, 5-HTP and SAMe.

[ZGT Mummy]

Thanks for your replies. Nutrient profile? What does that include? Both Leila and GP tested things like thyroid, Vit D, FBC, and some other stuff too. I don't think Mg was tested for, but Leila put me on Mg supplement back in February. She suggested I take 1 scoop (thinks it's about a teaspoon) but that did awful things to my bowels so I've cut it back to 1/2 teaspoon daily. I'm still doing that now, although I've never had a test for it. So it still seems odd that I was supplementing both Vit D and Mg at the same time, yet Vit D still did not rise????

In terms of diet I am already gfdf. I've been df for over two years now and gf since the beginning of the year.

I'm not sure why my GP suggested I may not be ovulating, but yes my LP is definitely 12-13 days. The last one was 13 days. Even though my cycles are all over the place, the LP is always 12-13 days. As I understand it this is the usual pattern with irregular cycles, it's the first part of the cycle that's irregular and the LP tends to stay the same.

I think I will ask him for another blood test next week when I see him. Any ideas what I should ask him to include? Obviously Vit D and Mg. My iron was fine when he tested it (terribly low when Leila tested in Feb but I then started supplementing and it came up).

I still don't know whether to use the cream or not. At the moment I'm in such a low place that everything seems in the too hard basket. I have too much on my plate for my head to be able to deal with and it just feels easier to just use it. Which of course is a really bad reason and goes against everything I've learned on here, but still that's how it feels for me right now.

I guess I'm just feeling that in order for me to be able to heal I need to lighten the load somehow so I can concentrate on healing? And some of these decisions are just weighing me down too much. I think I'm just trying to justify myself! It doesn't help that I'm now on my own so really most of my day is just spent trying to get through it with the kids, house, cooking, appointments coming out my ears etc etc. And the fact that I'm on my own in itself is a cause of a lot of emotional stress and certainly doesn't help the mindframe either!

It doesn't rain it pours!

Thanks again. I have some thinking to do.....

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

I'm not sure that testing is the answer. You've been stretched for a long time, and almost need a situation where someone else can take part of the load for a while. Being on your own, probably sounded the preferable answer, but often that just swaps one set of problems for another.

Have you family who would give you non-judgemental help?

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Vitamin D won't rise if you've not got enough fat and calcium in your diet IMO

[ZGT Mummy]

So I've just recently got my bloods back and my vitamin D has dropped even despite supplementing at 50,000iu weekly. It is now down to 48, was 57 in April and somewhere in the 50's in February.

My GP (who was recommended by Leila) said that if I have too much vitamin A in my system it uses the receptors that the vitamin D needs, hence my body won't absorb the vitamin D I'm supplementing. So I have to remove anything with vitamin A in my supplements, which is my multivit and my zinc.

I certainly don't limit the fat in my diet but don't concentrate on increasing it to any great extent. I am having a lot of soups lately with coconut oil added.

I am supplementing calcium too.

I don't know what else to do. My GP has just said at this stage to remove the vitamin A and see what I test in 4 weeks time. He has said that there is a test, 125 hydroxy (???) that he can not order up for me due to cost and I have checked and Leila said she's not allowed to order it either.

Any other suggestions?

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

vitamin A is an antagonist to vitamin D. vitamin C ironically, controls both.

Why does your zinc have vitamin A with it? Find another brand. Clinician's oral drops. and rework your vitamins so they don't have vitamin A in them.

[Sandra17]

Just one small, affordable suggestion for your magnesium. Epsoms Salts (magnesium sulphate) bath several times per week. Epsoms salts are in the bulk bins at your nearest Bin Inn shop at about $2.70/kg. They have a relaxing effect and you absorb the magnesium through your skin at the same time. If running a bath and laying in it is too difficult timewise, then an option which is easier to access is to make a epsoms salts foot bath in a big bucket and sit in the lounge with your feet in the bucket.