Give us this day our daily germs

[Nirvana]

Give us this day our daily germs (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6VHW-47XP4RP-8&_user=10&_coverDate=03%2F31%2F1998&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1412321276&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=808b80919fb09c45f679a1867ab9d923)

Graham A. W. Rookhttp://www.sciencedirect.com/scidirimg/entities/REemail.gif (g.rook@ucl.ac.uk) and John L. Stanford
Dept of Bacteriology, Windeyer Building, UCL Medical School, 46 Cleveland Street, London, UK W1P 6DB

Available online 14 February 2003.

Abstract


Modern vaccinations, fear of germs and obsession with hygiene are depriving the immune system of the information input upon which it is dependent. This fails to maintain the correct cytokine balance and fine-tune T-cell regulation, and may lead to increased incidences of allergies and autoimmune diseases. If humans continue to deprive their immune systems of the input to which evolution has adapted it, it may be necessary to devise ways of replacing it artificially.

[Wonder-Full]

See this stuff always makes me a bit confused. My DS has two auto-immune conditions (neither of which apear to be genetic and which showed themselves 3yrs apart) and we definitely do not fear germs or obsess over hygeine (even when DS was immunosuppressed I didn't disinfect or do anything particularly special although did up hand-washing after being out in public during that time etc). My kids are very healthy otherwise, so I do think that the germ/hygeine thing has paid off in that respect but hasn't stopped the auto-immune things (although neither kid gets excema, asthma, or other allergies). I have well-meaning relatives suggest that I don't expose my kids enough and that's why this is happening - really annoys me (I know it's not the entire answer and that the article only states MAY but still...).

I remember getting into an argument years ago when someone told me (who worked in the vaccine/immune research area I think) that their research showed that my DSs AI (coeliac disease only at that stage) could have been because we didn't vaccinate (because I wasn't assaulting his immune system enough) lol. I consulted Hilary at the time because it really threw me. Of course, when she pointed out the number of people with AIs who DO vaccinate (the majority of people), it just showed that that theory was complete rubbish.

[gilima]

There isn't just one answer, one solution.........
THats why as parents we need to focus on so many different things to keep our kids healthy. It makes so much sense and there definitly is something to their theory, we as a people are too " sterile" . I also let my kids get dirty, don't vaccinate, don't use antibacterial soap etc; On the other hand Iam not crazy about them being exposed to other kids who have just been vaccinated ( ya know, like bathing together, sharing drinks etc....) and I think that so many places,parks, even kids playgrounds are so loaded with chemicals and pesticides, that it is weakening the immune system further.....
Some of my kids have allergies too and a few of us are gluten intolerent. I think that if they were'nt breastfed, unvaccinated , etc; they would be soooo worse off!!!!
I have learned so much since first encountering these food allergies ..... gut health is sooo important, mineral deficiency is rampant, kids need more good fats( like A&D ) keeping away from meds ...the list goes on.
Our world, the world our kids are growing in is complex.
It's annoying sometimes when things don't add up and one of our kids has an issue anyway.

[Fièvre]

It is easy to imagine why children who are raised on farms might grow up healthy: there is plenty of fresh air, exercise, and exposure to sunlight. In fact, studies from Europe, North America, and Australasia provide convincing evidence that allergic diseases and asthma are less likely to develop in children who live on farms than in those who do not.1 Surprisingly, according to the findings of Ege and colleagues in this issue of the Journal, 2 the mechanism responsible for these health effects appears not to be related to clean living but instead to bacteria and fungi from the barnyard... says http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe1013713?query=featured_pulmonary
the NEJM published recently that paper : http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1007302?query=featured_pulmonary
( some will surely make a vaccine of these germs !)

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

I agree. ... Another parsifal study I see

[Fièvre]

Parsifal ? Yes indeed :
PARSIFAL (Prevention of Allergy—Risk Factors for Sensitization Related to Farming and Anthroposophic Lifestyle) was a 2006 multicenter study, conducted in five European countries, comparing the incidence of atopic disease (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atopy) in children attending Steiner (Waldorf) schools (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waldorf_education) with that in children attending other schools.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PARSIFAL#cite_note-JACI-0) The main objectives of the PARSIFAL study were 1) to investigate whether the previously observed reduced prevalences of atopic disease in children attending Waldorf schools could be confirmed in a large population of children from 5 European countries and 2) to explore commonly found factors in families with anthroposophic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthroposophy) lifestyles which might explain the lower prevalence of such diseases in these children.[2]...... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PARSIFAL#cite_note-1)The authors concluded that "certain features of the anthroposophic lifestyle, such as restrictive use of antibiotics and antipyretics, are associated with a reduced risk of allergic disease in children. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PARSIFAL#cite_note-1) cf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PARSIFAL

[A acquaintance of mine , living at the countryside recently went through a severe asthma crisis : a nasty polluted cloud had come from elsewhere ...]


PS: by the way Montezuma , have you ever known or hypotension after paracetamol administration ?

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

yeah. me. On any occasion I have taken it (count on fingers of one hand for life) it always drops my blood pressure.

[Fièvre]

Montezuma ,

concerning hypotensions /administration of paracetamol after a chirurgical intervention . An anaethesist lately wrote this on his blog -sorry in French for the moment-:

un de mes internes m’expliquait qu’il existait des hypotensions induites… tu as déjà rencontré ce genre de choses ? Someone answered
C’est à la limite de la légende urbaine http://www.nfkb0.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif
Ça a été rapporté chez des patients fébriles instables de réanimation (http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/583225), l’hypothèse est une diminution de la précharge secondaire à la vasoplégie et une diminution de l’ordre de 10% du débit cardiaque. Pertinence pour un patient ASA I-II ?...

cf http://www.nfkb0.com/2011/02/19/focus-sur-le-paracetamol/

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

In the past, I've taken paracetamol after two breast infections, just at the point where I'm not coping with the pain levels, and one severe headache after being bowled by a gymnast who I was spotting on a tumbling run. I canned off the edge of the sprung floor head first into the beam.

Each time, my BP was too low to life my head without stars spinning. Usually takes about 6 hours to come right, after the acetaminophen has worn off.

BUT>>> having said that. A few other drugs did that to me as well. Given that I've had nothing like that for decades, that's old experience.

now, with pain, I just put up with it.

[Fièvre]

A quick browsing lead me to this : hypotension following intravenous paracetamol administration is a new subject , which ,just recently searched for ( also a study spoke of it in 1997 ) seems to gain some reality . I found http://www.srlf.org/rc/org/srlf/med/Abstract/2008/abs-20081005-192549-3468/ and that http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=21487168 ( 2009)

Although this does not concern daily care but more intensive care units , it will perhaps unveil "surprising" aspect of the molecule ....