Growing Italian tomatoes.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/IMG_8617.jpgfirst, I will show you the garden two years ago, just to confuse you :D

Standing north, facing south, looking at the garden in spring:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/IMG_8620.jpgcompost system at far right.

Each bed has a different microclimate, and temperature profile. Looking slightly left:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/IMG_8621.jpg

Here is this area now, to protect my garden from other family members:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/F1000005.jpg


cold bed just behind the room you saw in the previous photo:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/IMG_8619.jpg

Standing on same spot turned around and took a photo of the warmest southern bed:



from a different angle:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/IMG_8610.jpg

next warm southern bed:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/IMG_8616.jpg

middle bed, carnival corn:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/IMG_8607.jpg

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/IMG_8606.jpg

colder southern bed which was on the front right hand of 8620jpg, the first photo…

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/IMG_8608.jpg


depth of raised beds:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/IMG_8618.jpg
sprouting broccoli:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/IMG_8611.jpg

Garden last year:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/IMG_8623.jpg

hen scratch this year:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/henscratchyard.jpg

[Seaweed]

MT your garden is beautiful. It is so well organised but you know, apart from the corn & ( obviously ) the tomatoes, there is nothing in there I could see that we can't grow. Which has cheered me up today :D

[waiting]

Thanks!!
but I don't see a single Italian Tomato anywhere... :poke:

I do appreciate your showing us your set-up. It does give me ideas of what I can do. Especially if I ever out wit the gophers! :blink:
and, awww, the delight of garden photos while in the grasp of droll January (in the northern hemisphere).:)

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Okay, so knowing the microclimate of the beds was important in knowing what to do with regard to Italian tomatoes. I'll leave you to work out the changes in the gardening plan for this year :D

To best illustrate a sequence, I'll use one bed in this photo sequence. This is the bed before the tomatoes went into it

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/CNV00012.jpg

These are the seeds having been potted out from the seed trays into some black bags someone gave me. To the right, is the corn in milk bottles. A highly recommended way of seed starting. The tap root goes straight down, and you slide the whole plug into the hole, and there is just about no plant shock.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/CNV00015.jpg

In this next photo, from top down, Blekli, Sorendino and Capri.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/CNV00016-1.jpg

I let the plants grow until they are a good 12 - 15 inches, and then I plant them very deep. I cover the first real leaves, so if you do this, remember that at some point, two laterals will come up from the base. The reason for doing this, is that raised beds dry out very fast, so you plant them as low as you can, so that in the dry, they have established a better root system. The tomato also puts out roots in the 8 inches of stem buried, so they get a huge root system established.

Using that same bed, this same photo was taken on 8th December:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/CNV00005-2.jpg

the left back row plant is already looking small, and became very unhappy, so it was removed to a large bucket as I wasn't sure if it had a nutrient problem or cucumber mosaic virus...

This photo was about 20 December:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/F1000012.jpg

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

they are now over my head height...

This photo is a diversion for Quickening.

If I had two more, I'd stack the tyres higher, but David only brought me home two :(

In the background is a very tall tomato which, gasp, over-wintered! I left it there to see how long it would take to die, but its now loaded with fruit, over 6 foot tall, and I have NO IDEA what it is, because it came out of the compost bin, which you saw in the first and fifth photos in the first post.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/F1000025.jpg

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

back to Italian tomatoes.

These tomatoes are all little or no acid, and the reason for that is that because so many Italian recipes use heaps of tomatoes in paste form, if they had too much acid, people would soon know about it. Many older people find acid tomatoes affect their joints.

I think it's very unfair to compare non-acid tomatoes with acid tomatoes. it's like comparing an apple with a pear.

I've only tasted Capri so far, and it's got a very gentle subtle taste, with no acid on the lips... which is quite unlike any tomato I've ever tasted. It's firm fleshed, not mushy fleshed, and cuts beautifully. I can eat them one after the other. But I'm not sure I'd call them a tomato :lol:

And I forgot to take a photo. The man who sent me the seed, sent me some at Christmas time from his glass house, but said that my outside ones should taste different and better.

He couldn't sent me Blekli or Sorendino, as he doesn't grow them in the glasshouse, as they don't really like it much.

So here is a brief run-down of the tomatoes and their differences.

Roma. A bland taste, solid red throughout, but just fried, or rendered down into paste or sauce the flavour really bursts out. Grows to 7 - 8 feet, and requires "more" water. Needs a feed of sulphate of potash about when the third flower buch appears. And Two liquid feeds. As I've split some of mine into two leaders, I might give them three, but in general the experts say that a slightly underfed tomato tastes better. :rolleyes:

Blekli, is 5 - 6 feet tall, and is another that requires more water and has the same feeding "schedule" theoretically, as the roma.

Capri grows to 4.5 - 5 feet, is not a prolific producer, requires less water, less "manure" but MORE sulphate of potash.

Sorendino is 5-6 feet tall, and same as Capri. theoretically, liquid manure at 1st bunch set, and potash at third bunch set and three weeks later.

Once the third bunch of fruit sets, and only then, take off all real leaves up to that bunch. I did mine earlier, because we got a misty spell and I wanted air to circulate to try to lessen chances of blight.

and I've just sprayed with copper oxychloride to try to stall the blight.

In terms of taste, Roma is the blandest, Capri the next one, has more flavour and blekli and Sorendino more flavour still.

they are all the usual Italian Plum shape with crinkled shoulders.

Your average New Zealander, who uses the Beefsteak as a benchmark, will not like italian tomatoes, because they are looking for brash, not subtlety.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Mr Italian guru says, never take laterals off on a wet day, always a fine day, and preferably when you know the next day will be fine as well.

He said 15 inches between tomatoes, but that's much too close. I did 18 inches, and think I should have done 24.

He said that the seed would germinate in 7 days.

with me, that didn't happen, because I put them outside to germinate, in a lizardarium, but outside none the lest.

The Sorendino and Blekli took 12 - 14 days to come up, and the Capri 18 - 20 days.

I then did some in the cupboard and they came up fast, but became spindly not nice plants so I didn't use them.

Italian expert says to only let them set 5 - 6 bunches, then remove top of growing tip.

On the other hand, Bob flowerdew suggests you train some plants as cordons, and you get bigger and earlier crops.

I've got some as single stems, and others as a Y with two main stems both with their own stakes.

Calcium deficiency causes blossom rot even though the plants appear okay.

Now all you other tomato gurus can add what else you know, to fill in the gaps wot I don't :D

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

This bed. at the back there are three various sorts of tomatoes given to me, but I've no idea what they are. they were planted before the Italian tomatoes.

The second row you see are primarily Blekli, with the bottom front a Capri.

In this first photo, you can see the spacing is wider than he says:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/F1000006.jpg

But the second photo shows you the double stakes, and two laterals, so the bed is now a jungle, though it doesn't look so bad in this photo. The next one I will take shortly, and when I put that up, you will all crawl all over me, telling me what an idiot I am :D

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/F1000015-1.jpg


Added photo taken about 1st january.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/bedno1.jpg

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Okay, is that enuf for now?

[3monkeys]

I have serious garden envy :D

[waiting]

guess I should have waited before I posted last. :D There are tons of Italian tomatoes now.

hmmm, lots to think on... ideas to ponder...

Thanks!!!!

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

This is the tomato which came up during winter in May. I couldn't be bothered pulling it out as I thought it would die. Then I decided to see how long it would take to die. Then in spring when it was still sitting there, I decided to leave it there, and see how long it would take for it to take off.

This is it, now. It has large beefsteak-like looking fruit, but as we don't eat beefsteak, that is very odd. Perhaps a bird pooped it there in the winter :D :

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/Unknowntomato.jpg



In case you are wondering what all that "grass" is amongst the straw, like a dummy, I forgot to put the barley straw in the hen scratch patch first, for them to pick the barley out, so now, we have all this barley grass flourishing. Every now and again, I rip out handfulls and lie it down...

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

The green spray marks are copper oxychloride to prevent fungus, which is about as heavy as I get.

Roma fruit:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/Romafruit.jpg


Blekli fruit:


http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/bleklifruit.jpg

sorendino fruit:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/sorendinofruit.jpg

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

This is a weird capri plant which has been twisted and thin from the start, so is isolated in a bucket because I want to see what will happen.

according to the books, it's either a nutrient deficiency, or cucumber mosaic virus, but I don't think so. Since it's looked odd right from germination, I think there is something wrong with the seed DNA...

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/strangecapri.jpg

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

This is one of Giovanni's Roma plants. (The Roma fruit above, is from Mitre 10, and those 6 plants are throwing unusual fruit. Three plant are perhapse throw-backs becasue the fruit is most odd.... I'll put up pictures of them next week). T

This plant started out small, string like, and twisted like the Capri above, but then threw out two laterals which have grown normally. I cut out the twisted growth, and am letting it grow to see what happens. it's not isolated, as it appears normal now. Giovanni's Roma plants (I only have two) have not yet set fruit...

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/tomato2.jpg

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

January 2009 update.

Blekli tomatoes:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/Blekli2.jpg

first bunch of Capri tomatoes:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/capri.jpg

A loaded Mitre 10 Roma tree.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/romafruit-1.jpg

sorendino fruit:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/sorendino.jpg

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

the spray you see is copper oxychloride, which I didn't need, becasue I didn't spray the potatoes and they didn't get blight.

Sigh...

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

I was looking at my tomatoes today, and thought... these plants should be much higher than they are, so what is going on? I went round the back of the bed, and saw some tomatoes on "the ground" and thought... "Hmmmmm..." fighting my way into the jungle, it dawned on me that the weight of the fruit was causing the tomato plants to slide down the bamboos. (So that's one reason why people use 1 inch by 1 inch stakes I thought...)

So what to do. I found some fabric which would never be used for anything else, and crawled in under the tomatoes, found a space, and tied the fabric strip to the base of the tomato. Then I wound it flat around the stem and the bamboo, sometimes alternating the twist. Working from the bottom, I straightened the plants up so that the weight is now taken evenly up the whole stem. The plants are about 7 feet tall now.

Why did it happen? It happened because I decided to use a method that used to be used in glass houses, and is mentioned in Yates book. That of letting the first strong leader form a Y so that you have two fruiting branches. According to Bob Flowerdew, espaliering tomatoes produces bigger crops, earlier.

However, I hadn't thought through the practicalities of it. So it took me six hours to cut enough strips and try to get the tomatoes to stand tall. What a difference it makes in terms of tidiness as well.

But I'm going to have to watch it, and if necessary, undo the winding, if it looks like the stems need to get larger.

You can tell I've not grown tomatoes seriously before, can't you?!!

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

But here's the interesting thing. That didn't happen with the large tomato that grew out of what was the compost bin. I wonder why? Also, the Capris are the least likely to have collapsed, though I've tied them all up now..

[Seaweed]

We always grow our tomato plants here in a plastic house so there is a string from one of the roof beams which the plant gets wound up. We also always keep it to one central leader. When I was in Auckland, I literally let my tomato plants sprawl & we could not keep up with the amount of tomatoes we got. So not much help here. Can you grow them up a woven lattice sort of thing like you can do for peas?

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Some of the tomatoes are next to that, but too far away from it.

Some people use circular things with rings, but I just can't see the point in that... Other people use the metal stakes which are a coil... like curly spaghetti.. have you seen them?

I'm not convinced that bamboo is going to be strong enough though...

So we experiment.

Thanks Seaweed...

[Seaweed]

I've seen pictures of tomatoes grown up around circular mesh. Kinda like if you curled a roll of sheep fencing up & grew the tomato up the middle? Otherwise I guess you need to hope they all start ripening soon & you need to start eating them quickly to keep the weight on the plant down :D

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Photos taken today with son's digital camera:

Left side of the garden: the reds are the roma which have been going for a while...

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/CIMG2590.jpg

right side of the garden:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/CIMG2589.jpg

From left, two blekli, one Capri, behind them three Blekli, behind them, one beefsteak and two your guess is as good as mine...

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/CIMG2579.jpg

Capri about to ripen:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/CIMG2557.jpg

Sorendinos, a way to go:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/CIMG2564.jpg

This was a Capri seed, but the trusses are different. The leaves are like Capri, and curl like Capri, but there's something different about this one. Depending on what it tastes like, I just might save seed, as this one might have advantages...

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/CIMG2626.jpg

This is a pumpkin behind a capri. it's huge...

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/Angladrion/CIMG2593.jpg

[Wonder-Full]

Ooooh, your tomatoes look fab!

I make my first lot of tomato sauce for the season today. Usually I cook them into a savoury pasta sauce/pizza sauce and freeze, but decided to just cook them down and freeze in portion sizes. Kids loved scoffing down freshly cooked tomatoes today.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

do we need a recipe forum to put recipes in? :D

[Wonder-Full]

Sounds good!

Could maybe have subcategories if anyone's interested.

Storing the harvest or similar could be one.

If anyone's interested in starch-free recipes, I've found or modified quite a few too! :D