Candida

[Nirvana]

I need some help learning more about Candida. On a different group, someone mentioned about candida and a test you can do at home. You are required to spit first thing in the morning in a glass of water and if the saliva looks stringy and moves downward then it is supposed to be an indicator of candida. (Those who believe in the chemtrail theory believe something along this lines too.)

So I did this test and this is exactly what happened. So I want to know if there are some particular tests to check for this. I do have some of the symptoms associated with candida but then these are such typical and common things that I don't quite know if this could be related to candida. Any info will be appreciated.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

I don't know the technicalities of candida, but I am on a candida elimination diet. Loving mama was talking to me about this diet here (http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/candida/index.php), which I read, but that is far more restrictive than what I'm doing.

I'm not prepared to drop most fruit and those vegetables, because I believe the minerals and vitamins in them outweigh any fructose, and I'm doing just fine with them in my diet...

[Seaweed]

I am thinking I need to do something with my youngest dd who reacts badly to starch. I have looked at anti candida diets but they are way too restrictive for her. Can you expand on your version MT? Also what about potatoes? I have a friend whose husband has all sorts of issues with yeast & gut problems but he is fine with urenika potatoes & I also gave him some of the older maori potatoes once & he was fine with them too.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

I'm eating Jersey Bennes potatoes with lamb at the moment, and they are fine, but their texture is like maori potatoes.

I don't eat sugar, or any grain except buckwheat, which isn't really a grain, but a rhubarb seed :p

I'm pigging out on cabbage salads with parsley, celery leaves, basil, parmesan, avocado and feta, with olive oil; watermelon, honeydew melon, tomatoes, anything fruit and vege, that I fancy. chicken, lamb, egg fritata with a tsp chutney for lunch... that sort of thing. I'm NOT eating mushrooms of any kind.

Oh, I do juices, and separate out the carrot pulp, and put that with mashed cottage cheese, oil, salt, parsley, celery leaves, chives and tomato paste. Yum.

I feel the restrictiveness of the diet above, would drive me starkers, and I think it's much too restrictive, and would eliminate valuable phytonutrients and minerals, which outweigh the alleged candida issues. I don't believe that candida feeds on fructose the way that it does on sucrose. For a start, fructose is metabolised completely differently to sucrose.....

I'm eating yoghurt, kefir, any nuts I hanker, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds... so there is still a huge variety of things I can eat.

Just not some of my favourites like fruit cake with marzipan in the middle :(

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

and I'm NOT losing weight :( :tsk...

[Seaweed]

We could do that no problem. Jersey bennes are a very old potato as well you know.

[Seaweed]

I have a recipe for raw fruit cake somewhere or is dried fruit completely out? I guess you could adapt it to work with fresh fruit instead as it is summer now? & you could probably make some form of raw marzipan.

I find I need exercise to lose weight.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

You can't make proper marzipan without sugar, and without heating the eggs with it in a double boiler. Nothing but the real thing will do :p

So it's nothing. :D

[LovingMama]

Momtezuma, on your blog you had a link to a site where supplements were part of your cleanse. Did you use those and if so how did they work out for you?
I really need to get my candida under control. I tried yeast targeting enzymes(candidase/candex) for over 2 months (still taking), along with enzymes with meals, cutting back on sugars and carbs, biotin, and a few other things but there was no real difference. I think I 've had the yeast for so long they don't wanna leave. If Bee's program http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/candida/index.php
will work then that might be what I end up doing. I just need something that works before I get pregnant, definitely don't want to cause issues in my next child like I did the first. :(

[Wonder-Full]

I showed my mum the GAPS diet DVD coz she's always had candida issues and I think I've managed to get her on board. It sounds very similar to what you are eating MT (well, we all are and I haven't found it too restrictive at all - just takes a bit of planning and my main issue is a ravenous child due to steroids).

I've been making him little cookies from ground nuts, egg and some honey.

Do we have a recipe section we could share meal ideas? Off to look...

[Seaweed]

The honey would be the cruncher for us. dh unfortunately came from a major junk eating family so he thinks the kids need sweet stuff. I compromise by giving them honey, making them cakes with honey & so on.

[Wonder-Full]

Yeah, it's funny. I never buy bikkies or anything of that sort as regular everyday food and maybe made muffins once a month. But since being restricted I started to feel the need to provide something that felt decadent to him. Can't say I find them that nice, but he does. :D

another interesting to me thing - dd seems to fit the profile more for all these diet changes (and my mum thought so too when watching the dvd) and last night woke dry for the first time (she's almost 4) - from flooding a nappy consistently to nothing. Not sure if changes to diet would have that sort of effect within 1 day? She's still got a real pot-belly and speech delayed due to glue ear (I'm hoping this diet will eliminate the need for grommets for good when the specialist sees us again in March which is apparently crunch point for putting them off any longer) and not always the most logical for what other kids her age are doing (I know, don't compare :rolleyes:).

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Momtezuma, on your blog you had a link to a site where supplements were part of your cleanse. Did you use those and if so how did they work out for you?

I'll do a thread on that. They worked in that it was a start to a journey, and quite a lot of things are better but not yet resolved. I will do it again, but will continue to use his old protocol, not the new one.


If Bee's program http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/candida/index.php
will work then that might be what I end up doing. I just need something that works before I get pregnant, definitely don't want to cause issues in my next child like I did the first. :( Her programme is probably the right one, in terms of really cracking down on everything, but to me, it restricts other nutrients too much for my liking. And the reality is that I like variety, whereas her diet would be too big a step for me. I dare say if it got to the point where I had no choice, then I would try it. After all, six months ago, who would have thought I'd be doing what I'm doing now?

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

diet can have dramatic effects in children.

There was an article in this weeks Canvas about food intolerances... a woman who had distended belly etc... I will scan it later and attach it. It turned out that her bloating was natural salicylates....

There is no need for grommets, period. There was also a study done recently, which showed they were useless, which really upset those who just love to pedal them.... I will try to find it sometime.

[Wonder-Full]

OT:
Thanks, would appreciate that MT.

I've managed to put the ENT spec. off for a year so far. He's actually been quite willing to wait - it's interesting that when I asked if they were critical for her he said no, but found that most parents wanted them. hmmm, guess I have been dealing with medical peeps more than I realised and seems they do a lot of interventions because that's what people want. :confused:

[LovingMama]

Sorry, but what are grommets?
:)
Shannon

[Wonder-Full]

Also known as Ear Tubes? they are a tube that they insert through the eardrum of children to keep it open and allow excess fluid to drain. Not always successful (can fall out right away), done under a general anesthetic and basically something I've been avoiding...

[LovingMama]

Ahhh Ear Tubes. Friend of mine's son has them and so far they seem useless. Poor child is only 3 and has had over 4 surgeries. The last one was to break up scar tissue in his sinuses. He also recently had MRSA. It's been one thing after another, and sadly I think his parents still feed him dairy and junk food.

[LovingMama]

Today I am pooped. Had some pir last night and it wiped me out. Ears are itchy and I'm so tired. I'm really thinking about starting her program. Just wondering if it's worth it with only 4 months before we try to conceive.:confused:

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

I would do something, rather than do nothing. And I'd delay trying to conceive if I knew that the "results" would be less than stellar.

[Nirvana]

I just need something that works before I get pregnant, definitely don't want to cause issues in my next child like I did the first. :(

If you don't mind can you please elaborate what problems you think your first child has because you have candida.

This thread is turning out to be interesting and intriguing. My DD has a pot belly too and I did not think twice about this but the posts in this thread make me wanna rethink.

Also MT what are the reliable tests to check for candida?

Now my two-year-old DD is very sensitive to touch down there and she won't allow me to clean/touch it even! I thought maybe it's because of the chewable vit C I have been giving her. But in hindsight, could it be yeast? She sometimes has a peculiar smell down there too.

I gotta run right now but will be back to ask more questions.

[LovingMama]

I have always had stomach problems(along with other issues, constantly sick) from the time I was itty bitty. I remember when I was young having to lie on my belly and raise my rear (sorry for the TMI), to relieve pressure ;) When I was in my teens I had many other issues as well, but I remember my doc telling me I had IBS and a gastro doc confirming and telling me take prevacid (although I rarely did). Then when I got pregnant I was on the whole "whole wheat" kick and consumed lots of it. Toast for breakfast, sandwich for lunch, and whole wheat pasta for dinner. Little did I know I had a damaged gut and was sensitive to gluten, dairy, and possibly more. I remember eating chocolate during my pregnancy would cause her to kick a lot and get hiccups. Top it off with abx during labor, thrush, and me still consuming some bad things(wheat, dairy, and oj) during nursing.
Which brings me to the vit. c. Be careful. OJ literally burns my daughter down there. One time she got a blister that left a mark for 5 months. And that was when I was nursing(I had the OJ). Even now that she is 2.5 she still reacts the same when she drinks it. When I drink it I get pimples on my legs.

ETA-I reread your question and her specific symptoms that I believe are tied to my gut/yeast are: lots of hiccups during pregnancy and infancy (especially after I ate things like garlic, chocolate, peanut butter, dairy, and wheat), terrible sleeping (waking frequently and crying; especially after bf), speech delay(just now starting talking at 2.5 years after enzymes and candex), and a few others. Hope this helps:)

[Sandra17]

I've had some experiences of candida, never completely clear how bad I've had or got it. When I read books on candida I have (or have had) way more than but still including, presistent thrush in the profiles of symptoms. When I was living in Auckland one summer (a hottish and very humid climate with lots of mosquitoes which were driving me mad) I tried a yeast free diet with good results. I hadn't been having potato either by coincidence and when I did, it felt like it was bad food, triggering the whole hayfever/mosquito reaction thing. I've tried it other times with good results but never had the will to stick at it.

I found something called threelac, a kind of intensive probiotic type product when I was living in the UK and that helped also. Pricey though and I didn't keep it up.

My liking for wine, beer, bread and blue cheese is unhelpful.

But recently I got hold of some kefir grains and I've been drinking kefir most days and even although it is peak beer/wine/sweet foods season due to Christmas and summer holidays, I am thrush free.

We have been gluten free in the past for my son's eczema but are not currently. What I am moving towards though is eating only long fermented breads like sourdough. So almost always making bread at home for our needs.

Recently I have been seeing a holistic health person and she picked what I had suspected about a calcium deficiency (she links it to the severe illness I had two years ago after the birth of my daughter where I had what is best described as a rheumatoid arthritis virus and could not even walk at its worst). I wait with interest to see if dealing with the calcium issue has other side benefits. I don't imagine that they are isolated issues.

[LovingMama]

I'll do a thread on that. They worked in that it was a start to a journey, and quite a lot of things are better but not yet resolved. I will do it again, but will continue to use his old protocol, not the new one.

Her programme is probably the right one, in terms of really cracking down on everything, but to me, it restricts other nutrients too much for my liking. And the reality is that I like variety, whereas her diet would be too big a step for me. I dare say if it got to the point where I had no choice, then I would try it. After all, six months ago, who would have thought I'd be doing what I'm doing now?

Momtezuma,
I was wondering if I could get your thoughts on a few things related to her program?
1. Ketosis...this is a side effect/risk of this program, yet she states that it is misunderstood and not harmful(here's a link she gives http://www.biblelife.org/ketosis.htm ). How do you feel about Ketosis? Do our bodies need grains, fruits, and/or starchy foods? And if not normally, then what about during pregnancy?
2. There is a recommended supplement list, which isn't very long, because you are supposed to get most of your minerals and vitamins through food on her diet. In preparing for pregnancy and during pregnancy do you think the recommended list is good enough? Here's a link to the supplemenst she recommends.. http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/supp7.php
Or do you think I should do something like http://www.newchapter.com/products/perfect-prenatal ? I'm just worried about lacking something and not getting it with only the supplements she has listed, although she has assured me I will be ok.
Thanks,
Shannon

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

I don't know much about ketosis, except

1) That it's a key sign of pre-eclampsia, and according to Tom Brewer's books, indicate that too much sugar and flour is being eaten, and not enough protein, which I agree with, and

2) that I always show it when in labour, and just assumed it was because I never eat in labour.

I also have to admit that my approach to nutrition is basic. If it's whole, and not processed, eat it.

In terms of the supplement list, that looks okay. I probably wouldn't do it all.. and would suggest that it would be better started in the months before TTC, in case you're one of those people who find they can't tolerate supplements at a time when they have nausea... (and what is okay with one pregnancy might not be with another) so it's better to get up to speed to try to forestall nausea beforehand, than patch it up at the time...

I actually prefer the newchapter ones, but would add in Garlic and some of the other stuff.

I think you are being too much of a worry wart. :D I would get your diet A1, with real garlic etc and natural probiotics including kefir, and then add in newchapter if you feel you can't relax without it, and then, smile, and smell the daisies.

You know, some of the most unhealthy people I have known, ate all the right things, did all the right things, and obsessed about it so badly, that I'm sure their worrying negated everything they did.

Don't sweat it. Do what you can, and then relax. Relaxing in pregnancy is the biggest plus you can do.

[LovingMama]

I don't know much about ketosis, except

1) That it's a key sign of pre-eclampsia, and according to Tom Brewer's books, indicate that too much sugar and flour is being eaten, and not enough protein, which I agree with, and

2) that I always show it when in labour, and just assumed it was because I never eat in labour.

I also have to admit that my approach to nutrition is basic. If it's whole, and not processed, eat it.

In terms of the supplement list, that looks okay. I probably wouldn't do it all.. and would suggest that it would be better started in the months before TTC, in case you're one of those people who find they can't tolerate supplements at a time when they have nausea... (and what is okay with one pregnancy might not be with another) so it's better to get up to speed to try to forestall nausea beforehand, than patch it up at the time...

I actually prefer the newchapter ones, but would add in Garlic and some of the other stuff.

I think you are being too much of a worry wart. :D I would get your diet A1, with real garlic etc and natural probiotics including kefir, and then add in newchapter if you feel you can't relax without it, and then, smile, and smell the daisies.

You know, some of the most unhealthy people I have known, ate all the right things, did all the right things, and obsessed about it so badly, that I'm sure their worrying negated everything they did.

Don't sweat it. Do what you can, and then relax. Relaxing in pregnancy is the biggest plus you can do.

Thank you, I do tend to worry too much, and that's exactly what I needed to hear. I was telling myself that last night while trying to fall asleep; but for some reason I just feel like there is something I am missing, something I don't know about that I should be doing to prepare for my pregnancy and make sure my gut is 100% (or at least as close to as possible).
One last question ;) ....
You mentioned that with the New Chapter prenatal you would take that, garlic, and some other stuff. What other stuff do I need to supplement with?

[Nirvana]

I have always had stomach problems(along with other issues, constantly sick) from the time I was itty bitty. I remember when I was young having to lie on my belly and raise my rear (sorry for the TMI), to relieve pressure ;) When I was in my teens I had many other issues as well, but I remember my doc telling me I had IBS and a gastro doc confirming and telling me take prevacid (although I rarely did). Then when I got pregnant I was on the whole "whole wheat" kick and consumed lots of it. Toast for breakfast, sandwich for lunch, and whole wheat pasta for dinner. Little did I know I had a damaged gut and was sensitive to gluten, dairy, and possibly more. I remember eating chocolate during my pregnancy would cause her to kick a lot and get hiccups. Top it off with abx during labor, thrush, and me still consuming some bad things(wheat, dairy, and oj) during nursing.
Which brings me to the vit. c. Be careful. OJ literally burns my daughter down there. One time she got a blister that left a mark for 5 months. And that was when I was nursing(I had the OJ). Even now that she is 2.5 she still reacts the same when she drinks it. When I drink it I get pimples on my legs.

ETA-I reread your question and her specific symptoms that I believe are tied to my gut/yeast are: lots of hiccups during pregnancy and infancy (especially after I ate things like garlic, chocolate, peanut butter, dairy, and wheat), terrible sleeping (waking frequently and crying; especially after bf), speech delay(just now starting talking at 2.5 years after enzymes and candex), and a few others. Hope this helps:)

You know what DD had all the symptoms you mentioned above as an infant. But she has no speech delay (at least none I can see.) But I attributed all her frequent waking, hiccups etc to her reflux and her character being high needs. I stopped dairy when I was BFing but nothing else. I think there's a myriad of symptoms which can be classified under candida and/or something else too like GERD so it's gonna be difficult to find out the underlying issue at hand.

Thanks for your help :)

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

One last question ;) ....
You mentioned that with the New Chapter prenatal you would take that, garlic, and some other stuff. What other stuff do I need to supplement with?

I can't answer that. :giggle: I'm me. You are you. What I need might be the last thing in the world you need. :)

[LovingMama]

Got it ;) , I just thought when you said "I actually prefer the newchapter ones, but would add in Garlic and some of the other stuff." that there was something specific from the list of supplements from the yeast diet I should take along with the new chapter pills. But then again I have a tendency to read too much into things. :)
I know I said last question, but I'm wondering...
If magnesium and calcium compete for absorbtion, and zinc and copper compete for absorbtion, and iron has poor absorbtion with calcium present, who wins and who loses? What happens when you take a multi with all these ingredients?

[Niamh]

I belong here.
I've had my share of candida issues (still battling, in fact.)

I was a kid who spent my entire childhood on antibiotics, mainly for recurrent ear infections. I'm estranged from my mother, and was never actually given accurate or straight information - but from what I gather - I was formula fed part time, and my mother is a chronic 2-packs a day smoker.

My last child, I was going to an OB for mainly papertrail reasons, and also I didn't mind having discussions with her. My first appointment, I did the whole peeing-in-a-cup thing, and it came back that I had whitebloodcells in my urine.

[Here (http://www.pamamidwife.com/2007/02/26/on-the-standard-use-of-urinalysis-dipsticks/) & here (http://www.pamamidwife.com/2007/07/01/article-on-the-uselessness-of-routine-urine-dipsticks/) for reasons why pee-stick urine analysis are worthless.]

My computer was not working at the time, and I had about 7 frantic voicemails from an RN. I called her back, and she let me know I had a RAGING urinary tract infection. I explained that I was aware of the symptoms, and I felt great. She warned me over and over, the infection would 'not go away on its own' and it was IMPERATIVE I take antibiotics.
I knew better. But I took them anyways. I decided to have faith in her knowledge, and just take them damn things and not argue. The way she was frantic, I thought she'd call CPS on me or some other bizarre route.
About halfway through the course, I started having an EXTREME reaction to them. I broke out in hives ALL over my body. My abdomen was on fire, and I was completely miserable. Whenever I had carbs of any amount, it would flare up, and I'd sob with the pain/itching.
I thought I was having an allergic reaction to something (not the antibiotics, it just never occurred to me.) 3 doctors, and an allergist later - they had Zero to tell me besides "take benadryl."
I was pregnant, and not willing to do it, so I just barely cut carbs, and cried a lot.

fastforward: Post birth.
He had a leaky gut. He reacted to dairy, tomatoes, garlic, citrus, strawberries, and pretty much anything delicious.
I cut it all out immediately, as I could see the hives/bloating/mucus or not the right color poop etc in my otherwise very calm and smiley newborn.

Months went by, and I've been able to slowly integrate everything back without any sign of hives or poop discoloration. I've become a poop-reading expert.

I've battled the case of all cases of breast thrush. It sucks.
I still have a leaky candida ridden gut, and my new years resolution is to combat it. I've realized my years and years of childhood/teen IBS and stomach issues was a leaky gut/candida issue. I had pneumonia for 5 months when I was 13. Hospitalized for it, hair falling out etc. Antibiotics were given, of course, and I, of course, continued to stay ill. Ugh.


I drink a lot of water, a lot of kefir, try to incorporate a decent amount of coconut in meals, and try to stick to a vegetable-protein based diet.

Its so funny, my husband is a carb-a-holic. I mean, he eats cinnamon rolls every morning, snacks on boxes of sugar-cereal throughout the day, and all of his meals need some kind of major carbage.
But he doesn't have the issues I have. And thats because, he has only been on antibiotics once, his mother breastfed him almost exclusively until a year, and his body is just built differently than mine. Granted, he's not to the health he ought to be, but his gut is pretty solid.

That was pretty rambly/novely/excruciatingly long. Sorry about that. :o

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Got it ;) , I just thought when you said "I actually prefer the newchapter ones, but would add in Garlic and some of the other stuff." that there was something specific from the list of supplements from the yeast diet I should take along with the new chapter pills. But then again I have a tendency to read too much into things. :)
I know I said last question, but I'm wondering...
If magnesium and calcium compete for absorbtion, and zinc and copper compete for absorbtion, and iron has poor absorbtion with calcium present, who wins and who loses? What happens when you take a multi with all these ingredients?

Honestly, you know... I just don't think about it. The thing is that nutrition is like a spider-web. You can't do one thing somewhere, without it affecting something else. the medical profession haven't quite got this yet, which is why they are always trying to "isolate" a "curative" compound.

So when they give Statins, they never take into account for instance, that statin nuke co-Q 10, and seems to interfere with magnesium, and...a few years down the line, when a Statin taker starts to develop heart trouble, it's all coincidental. It would never occur to doctors that they had caused the heart issues in the first place, by using a compound which trashes the very nutrients which prevent heart damage in the first place...

Nutrition is the same. You can do one thing, without alterning another, and that's why I say that the basic foundations are crucial and must be strong.

then whatever you add into in the way of supplements will be minimal, and least likely to disturb anything else....

[jules]

I can't seem to clear up dd's (she's 6.5) vaginal yeast issue...for long anyways.

I know too much sugar(candy on the holidays such as Halloween, Valentines, Easter) sets it off. Vaentines candy set it off last time. I bought her none but she came home from school with a bag full :eek:

At the time I was treating her last one, she was also off milk because she had a cough/cold. It appeared cleared up.


I put her back on milk this week and its back in full force:(

If cow's milk is the culprit, what do you substitute with?

Could it be her vitamins? They are just kids otc vitamins...new ones we bought 2 weeks ago.

My other thought is Ramen noodles? She also ate those the same week I put her back on milk.

I give her showers now. Soap in bath water is another culprit for her.

Anything else I might be missing? I don't know what all the triggers could be.

[Seaweed]

A few random thoughts. What type of milk is it? There is lactose in milk which is a milk sugar which could feed yeast. This is why the SCD does 24 hr yoghurts to culture it all out. It is also possible if it is low fat milk there may nt be enuf fat in it but that is a long shot. Anything starchy like grains breaks down to sugars in the body so will feed yeast. Maybe read the label on the vitamin pills & see what is in them too? Soap would be destroying the bacterial balance which would give the yeast a chance to proliferate.

[jules]

we drink whole (cows) milk.