Wrinkles

[Seaweed]

Recently I have run into a few women I haven't seen for quite a while around the place. They are all probably 5 or so years older than me & they have all, without exception, being looking really wrinkly & their faces have become quite saggy. I know this is vain but it freaked me out a bit.

From a nutritional point of view, something must be going on other than the inevitable ageing process & I would guess that this would have more of a far reaching effect than simply cosmetic. So I wanted to start a thread about what we can do to meet our changing nutritional needs as we get older.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

First, we need to define what it is that "stops" wrinkles being formed.

Perhaps the obvious place to start would be why some women who smoke have the most wrinkled, saggy faces of all. it does come back to what cigarettes do inside them. Each cigarette strips out 50 mg of vitamin C.

Why is that important?

The basis of collagen formation starts with vitamin C at the bottom of the pyramid. That is your key. vitamin C with gelatine (also using glucosamines), is pulled in to form several sorts of collagen. first, the fundamental framework of bones relies upon vitamin C + gelatine = collagen, which is meshed into an interlocking flexible matrix, into which, vitamin K and vitamin D process and drag calcium to strengthen it.

Every cell wall in the body, be it skin, or any wall, depends on collagen, so again, vitamin C forms the foundation, and gelatine in the diet is the next crucial stepping stone. People who get plenty of vitamin C, but no gelatine, don't form good collagen bonds either, and vegans who will not eat any form of gelatine, will also prematurely get wrinkled skin.

What's also more interesting to me, is that the strength of a cell walls and buildability, depends on the type of fat. When we were talking with the functional orthodontist, he told us that how much money we spent, might depend on whether our children ate margarine or butter.

When I asked why, he said, "If your children eat margarine, you will spend twice as much, and it will take twice as long, as if your children eat butter." when pushed further he elaborated that in his opinion, where the majority of "fat" is margarine, the collagen cell walls were so leaky that minerals went in one side and out the other, so as the bone sinuses in the jaw were pulled apart, it took twice as long for margarine eaters to lay down new bone.

I think that there is a lot more to it than that. The margarine eaters just might not have had plenty of vitamin K or vitamin D in their diets either.

Wrinkles come to us all. But the best way to stall it as long as possible, is to make sure that we have enough vitamin C in our diets, enough gelatine in our diet, and plenty of fruits and vegetables, seeds, nuts and good clean water, so that the collagen bonds are strong, and the minerals don't wizz in one side of a cell and out the other...

[Seaweed]

This would also mean all those expensive anti wrinkle creams - natural or otherwise - most likely won't work if your nutrition is wrong.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

I don't know. They might work in terms of hydration, or supporting the skin some other way, but I can't see how the collagen can incorporate, unless there is something about the cream that we don't know.

[Seaweed]

Foreskins!!! Or so I have read on MDC.

Back to nutrition & wrinkles. For the skin to suddenly lose traction like that could it be a result of a lifetime of bad nutrition or could it be that premenopausal changes are churning up nutrients? There is always alot of stuff written about preconception & pregnancy & bf being a time of special nutrient demands but if the later above is true, there is not that much out there about it.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

This is just a guess based on the fact that the body can recycle vitamin C until it's all used up, and it can store other nutrients against a rainy day so to speak. Many of the nutrients in our bones are recycled as well, so long as the nutrient balance is there. I suspect, but don't know, that nutrient depletion can be like walking across a plateau, coming close to the edge, but still stable, until .....

Menopause does do interesting things, and there is no doubt that telomere length, and use-by date comes into it. But those people who manage that the best, are those people who have good stores and don't "abuse" the way the car is supposed to run. they give it the right petrol, oil, and regular maintenance so to speak.

but rust gets us all in the end :D

[Lexie]

I'm glad vitamin C was brought up. At 23, I noticed the slightest crow's feet and laugh lines starting. I used calcium ascorbate mixed with honey externally when I had hives and it cleared up in a couple hours. I've done a lot of research on vitamin C and something clicked one day which led to me beginning to use it on my skin. I decided to try it on the wrinkles as well as my droopy eyelid--no idea why it was like that, honestly, but it was only ever noticeable when I was tired. Well, within an hour, the results were dramatic. My skin felt smooth, tight, very plump, and the wrinkles were gone. Also, very little difference between my eyelids. I continued to use it, but after a few days of this (1 hour per day), I suppose there was nothing more for it to do because there were no new changes. The wrinkles have never returned, and my eyelid has only seemed a little droopy once.

[momofsaa]

I used calcium ascorbate mixed with honey externally when I had hives and it cleared up in a couple hours.
Could you explain exactly how you did this?

[momofsaa]

vitamin C with gelatine (also using glucosamines)
Can you explain the gelatine aspect?

"If your children eat margarine, you will spend twice as much, and it will take twice as long, as if your children eat butter."
This is kind of interesting. I'm curious of its accuracy. I've switched to butter just because I was trying to get back to basics.

[Lexie]

Could you explain exactly how you did this?

Sure. Simple, honestly. I mixed 1:1 and if it was too runny, I added more of the ascorbate. If it was too clumpy, I added more honey. It doesn't really dissolve, but I mix it as well as I can. Then I massage it into my skin and let it sit for an hour or more. Usually I find it's most potent the first hour and you can follow up the next day for another hour.

[Trogdor]

I am amazed at the amount of women I come across that don't wash their faces nightly with a gentle cleanser. I get a lot of comments on my skin because I moisturize after I wash. I've been using Oil of Olay for years now...almost two solid decades actually. I use Neutrogena soap.
I know we're talking internally..but I think externally it's important too.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Can you explain the gelatine aspect?If you have no gelatine in your diet, then vitamin C + glucosamine, can't make collagen.


(re margarine versus butter) This is kind of interesting. I'm curious of its accuracy. I've switched to butter just because I was trying to get back to basics.There's a lot that is accurate in life, which you will never get scientific proof on. The fact that many if not most "ordinary" doctors believe that margarine, which is one molecule off plastic, is better for you than butter, tells me all I need to know about their 'accuracy' on the matter.:giggle:

[momofsaa]

If you have no gelatine in your diet, then vitamin C + glucosamine, can't make collagen.

What I mean is, where do you get the gelatine? Just eating it or is it combined in the supplement?
I'm with you on limiting nutrition through supplements, and I'm trying to find the balance.

[Serephina]

Home made meat stock would be a rich source of gelatine. It's found in the bones, skins and connective tissue of animals. I can't think of any other naturally occurring sources.

[Seaweed]

I don't use soap on my skin & I get lots of comments about not looking old enuf to be a grannie. I don't usually use moisturiser at night either so my skin can breathe. I think the most important thing to do externally is put on some kind of sun block. I use the most natural moisturiser I can afford with an SPF. Occasionally I have a bad financial month & have to buy Olay but I dislike the company who makes it & it must be tested on animals which I am not keen on either. Usually I get living nature or I have one right now called skin food which is incredibly reasonably priced.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

:lol: You won't catch me using any sunscreen, or sunblock. Noway, nohow. the only sunblock I have is called clothes and a hat.

I dont' use a commercial skin moisturiser of any sort either. But I do use coconut oil.

[Seaweed]

:giggle:I do know sunblocks & commercial moisturisers are evil but I am vain ;) I live in a high wind zone too so hats won't stay on for long. How does the coconut oil go as a skin moisturiser? I am taking it you mean the extra virgin coconut oil you get in jars ?

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Yup.

what you need is a tie on bonnet :poke: they can turn inside out and choke you though.... :rolleyes:

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Home made meat stock would be a rich source of gelatine. It's found in the bones, skins and connective tissue of animals. I can't think of any other naturally occurring sources. Yup.

I keep all the carcases from cooked chicken, and use that. fish carcases also produce gelatin, but I'm not keen on fish..

[Lexie]

Call me weird...but I'm a water only girl.

[Seaweed]

I make bone broths from lamb neck bones, beef bones, chicken bones, fish bones whatever I have to hand really. I have used chicken's feet before to freak dh out & I am planning to try crab shells soon.

The amount I have to move around outside, I doubt a bonnet would do much & if I got a tie on sombrero I would either get tangled up in the bushes out the back or I would take off like mary poppins in the wind. Hence why I stick to a natural sunblock & C powder at nights to help undo the daily damage.

I only use water to wash my face as well.

[Lexie]

:) Isn't WO wonderful? It really helped with my oily skin. It's still oily, but not extreme as it used to be. But I'm pretty much WO all over...pretty much.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

:) Isn't WO wonderful? It really helped with my oily skin. It's still oily, but not extreme as it used to be. But I'm pretty much WO all over...pretty much.

WO?

H2O?

[Seaweed]

WO = water only

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

WO = water only ........Ta.

[Nirvana]

So Hilary, how can vegetarians like me try to handle the gelatine part of daily diet?

I very rarely use soap on my face. Lukewarm water is all I use on my face. But I like to use moisturizers although I am not able to indulge much in my pampering sessions thanks to my naughty child.

[Seaweed]

I am not Hilary but I was thinking about the gelatin thing for vegetarians the other day. I doubt things like agar which are used as vege gelatin work the same way. But my closest guess would be if it exists, it would most likely be from a sea vegetable. Being totally silly, the only other thing I could think of was horse hoof trimmings.

I am reporting back too about the C powder. I've been taking it for about a month now at nights - since I got the bee sting. & my slightest bit of paperyness under the eyes has almost gone & my skin is far less red on my cheek bones & nose. Not that it was ever that red. Despite me being out in the sun almost all day a few times. I also haven't sun burnt either. oh & I have bone broths relatively regularly anyways & have made an effort to eat gelatin too.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

http://www.articlesbase.com/skin-care-articles/how-does-the-body-make-collagen-727472.html In order to help the body make collagen, you should first focus on good nutrition. You need to consume enough protein in your diet, because proteins are composed of amino acids and although they are not complete proteins, collagens are composed of amino acids. If you don’t get enough of the essential amino acids in your diet, the cells of your body will not secrete pro-collagens and the process will never begin.

You also need to be sure to get enough vitamin C in your diet or through supplementation. It is needed as a cofactor for the production of pro-collagen molecules. Without it the fibers will be weak.

If you accurately food combine, to make sure all the amino acids are delivered together, then you make collagen.

[Nirvana]

So seaweed, I think I will have to start eating your namesake :) Yeah I don't think agar agar will do anything.

Nutrition is the key....as always. Thanks Hilary.

[Lexie]

Hmm, isn't agar agar from a type of seaweed?

[Seaweed]

Yes it possibly is even an actual type of seaweed ( as a pose to being extract from seaweed ) Or maybe I am getting confused with carageen (sp?) We get that here in the harbour but I've never to date tried to cook with it.

[Lexie]

I believe it is, but I can't remember the details...been years.

[Seaweed]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agar

[Seaweed]

Bumping this coz since I have been testing the gelatin & vit C out, my back has stopped clicking & my hip has stopped hurting ( :giggle:I am such an old lady ;) ) & also I had started getting a sore spot on one of my molars. That has gone too. Wrinkles are even better :)

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Be careful seaweed... you could kill yourself, you know :p

These vitamins are dangerous... unless the doctor says so...

[Seaweed]

:ROFL:I'll try not to.

[Seaweed]

Just bumping my wrinkle thread as I was running at the gym this morning & what should be on the TV but an ad for collagen capsules! There's never any sound on that TV so I could not hear it but yay - almost as good as cellulite fighting undies!!! We can buy collagen in capsules now ;)

Wrinkles are still at bay as good as they can be too :)

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

But again, the collagen is only as good as the substances required to pulling it into the body.

If there isn't enough vitamin C, the collagen is a waste of time....

[Seaweed]

If there isn't enough vitamin C, the collagen is a waste of time.... My point exactly!