Can Magnesium Ascorbate be used for Vitamin C mega-dosing?

[sarahmck]

When I ran out of my kilo of SA (purchased in America) I had trouble finding more here in the Netherlands. All I could find was magnesium ascorbate. I had a really hard time determining whether I could safely use this to mega-dose my family when we're sick (1/16 tsp per kg of body weight). This article (http://tomlevymd.com/health_ebytes/issue_9.html), provided by MT in a thread about SA on another forum, was the only one that discussed it in any detail and it gave me enough confidence that I went ahead and bought the MA and gave it to my family. At the time, both of my children and my husband had chicken pox, so I really needed something.

Now we've got MA and we all love it. SA tastes so salty and I have a hard time taking it myself and a much harder time getting my husband to take it. MA is just sour and tastes perfectly nice when mixed with juice. It is somewhat more expensive than SA, but not prohibitively so and the greater ease of taking it makes that extra expense totally worth it to me.

All this said, I still have nagging doubts about whether it can be used interchangeably with SA, and would love some reassurance from anyone here who might be sure.

Thanks!

[sarahmck]

:poke:
bumping

[Lexie]

Good question. I was considering switching to it from calcium ascorbate. I've tried mixing CA with water and it tastes like metal to me...like blood does, basically. It's so hard to take when I have no juice around. I figured SA would be salty...I'm still not sure I want to swallow much baking soda though I do use it instead of toothpaste. I personally take a magnesium supplement anyway, so if there's enough magnesium in MA, I'd probably be able to cut down on those pills a bit. I don't mind sour. At least I could chug sour. Metal is just...gag-worthy.

[sarahmck]

I'd go as far as to say that it tastes good. I highly recommend it from that perspective, but I do wish I could be 100% sure that it's okay to take instead of SA.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Anyone who takes Calcium ascorbate is seriously asking for huge trouble long term.

don't... is all I say.

Yes, you can use magnesium ascorbate PROVIDING you eat some food at the same time, which will provide the sodium ion which ascorbate needs in order to split. The extra magnesium is what Western people need, because we have far too much calcium in our diets, in relation to magnesium.

So all you need to remember is that you need to provide the sodium ions, somehow, at the same time.

I don't know the best way to do that, because we only use sodium ascorbate, and nothing else. The reason being that sodium ascorbate is the only form of vitamin C with enters the body neutrally, and doesn't result in the body having to do two manoeuvre; one, to shear off the magnesium and then two, to co-opt the sodium needed to use the ascorbate.

Generally, magnesium ascorbate isn't a problem when people eat food which already has sodium in it, but it would be a problem for me, because I don't eat much extra sodium at all. I have to consciously remember to put seasalt, or real salt on stuff. :(

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Magnesium Ascorbate, out of all of them is okay, but the second best. Way better than calcium ascorbate.

Here is an old post I put up at Mothering



Don't use Calcium ascorbate - ever. There are very good reasons why, not least of which is how it is metabolised in the body. Calcium Ascorbate is a no no. I learned the hard way. Brief description. In order to metabolise ascorbate, the Vitamin C needs a sodium ion. It splits into two compounds, one of which is used, the other excreted. The basic biochemical unit of the cell is the sodium ion.

If you use calcium ascorbate, the calcium sheers away, and sodium is pulled from the nearest cell with it in it. Once the ascorbate is split, the first thing it does is to chelate out the calcium, which should not be there. Then what you have left, is what is available. That is why you rarely get diarrhoea with calcium ascorbate. Because you have to use far more of it, to do what sodium ascorbate does. So how did ester C become supposedly the best? I don't know. I know my facts, because Archie Kalokerinos explained them to me, as have a couple of biochemists. I needed to know, because when Archie sorted out my arthritis after the rubella vaccine, he didn't put a label on it. I didn't know what it was. So when I ran out, I went to the health shop, and asked for "the best". Within 9 months, I was in deep trouble and rang Archie to ask if this stuff was supposed to kill me ( I had a severe sodium deficiency, which was stuffing my immune system even worse than normal!!!).

He asked what was on the bottle, and when I read out Calcium Ascorbate - he explained that I would need to salt everything in sight for a while, and never to do it again.

Hypercalcemia makes cancer cells grow like billie-oh... by the way....



Do not use Ascorbic Acid.

Ascorbic acid also requires sodium with which to split it into so if you use anything other than sodium ascorbate for any length of time, the sodium balance in the cells gets severely disrupted, and the immune system can crash.

Believe me or not, its your choice. But I know, because I learned from experience.

dinky you said


That probably is because ascorbic acid is an essential ingredient of one of the main life energy processes of the body, so it's accustomed to it and does not get upset when too much is present.

I was impressed with the lack of danger to ascorbate injection. It appeared to cause no alergic nor other reactions no matter the insults laid on the body by concentration or speed of injection within wide limits. Actually, if you used ascorbic acid, you would be in grave danger. I think you should consult someone who actually knows what the biochemical nature of it is. in the rare occasion when the medical profession use ascorbate in solution they always use a sodium compound to put it in...

I have all Klenner's papers, and was surprised that he could have been so slack about stating exactly what he used...

Here is the qualification of that:

[url]http://www.orthomed.com/klenner.htm[/url (http://www.orthomed.com/klenner.htm%5b/url)]

[Lexie]

Good to know, thank you! I don't really keep track of my calcium intake. I don't try to get the so-called RDA though because I also don't overdo protein. Sometimes I'm guilty of having way too much sodium, so I'm kind of glad I did now... I don't do maintenance doses though. I pretty much only take it when I feel something coming on and one use is generally enough for me. My DH is a fairy heavy salt eater. Good thing I guess. That's probably why we never noticed any ill effects.

[sarahmck]

Thanks, MT, for the info. I'm pleased to know that my MA is okay and also glad to know that I have to be extra careful about taking it with food. I generally have been just because I don't like to take any supplement by itself, but now I will be extra careful. Just out of curiosity, if I take it by itself (but always mixed with juice of some sort), will it fail to work because of the absence of sodium or will it steal sodium from elsewhere in my body?

For anyone who has trouble getting themselves or their family members to take SA, consider MA. It really does taste totally fine. My DH has to take 6 tsp per day when sick and I have a very hard time getting him to take that much SA because it tastes so bad. Especially when sick with something that makes your stomach feel bad, getting extremely salty orange juice into one's belly is a bit of a trick. MA totally solves that problem.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Sodium will still be taken from elsewhere in the body to split the ascorbate, but extra magnesium in the body isn't the threat that extra calcium is. the body doesn't chelate out the magnesium the way it does the calcium. The additional problem with chelating out the calcium from calcium ascorbate, is that because we normally don't have enough magnesium in the western world, the body loses magnesium with the calcium that is chelated out. Magnesium binds to calcium to keep it in a fluid state...

So the preference is never to use calcium ascorbate, unless you have magnesium to burn...

[Lexie]

Even better since I take lots of magnesium... But I intend to switch anyway. :)

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

You don't need to change, if you feel that you are managing the balance okay. It's when people eat a SAD diet, and know nothing about the chemistry of ascorbate metabolism, and take it long term, that they run into trouble.

[Lexie]

Oh, I haven't been on the SAD since I was barely over 16. I'm a McDougaller. :)

But the taste of calcium ascorbate is horrendous to me. Until recently, I hadn't known of other ascorbates. My naturopath had recommended calcium ascorbate and I don't usually question him. I mostly took it for my period pain. Haven't had one in over a year since I got pregnant, so I rarely use it now. My DH uses it much more cause he catches everything floating around. He's on the SAD... :( So we do need the switch, if only for him. He wouldn't take my magnesium pills anyway. He has an overactive gag reflex and they're big pills.

[deesalie]

I've been chatting about sodium & calcium ascorbate with dp tonight. His question is... for a person with a high sodium problem... could you use calcium ascorbate to reduce sodium in the body?

[Doni]

I am lost.
Is sodium ascorbate ok?
I am treating my dog homeopathically for cancer and was told to give him sodium ascorbate as well as the other treatments. Have just realised after 2 weeks of giving it to him I bought calcium ascorbate.
Have I really done damage with it?

[Doni]

Its ok am cleared up now :D

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

I've been chatting about sodium & calcium ascorbate with dp tonight. His question is... for a person with a high sodium problem... could you use calcium ascorbate to reduce sodium in the body?That depends what is causing the sodium problem.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

I am lost.
Is sodium ascorbate ok?
I am treating my dog homeopathically for cancer and was told to give him sodium ascorbate as well as the other treatments. Have just realised after 2 weeks of giving it to him I bought calcium ascorbate.
Have I really done damage with it?

If you use it long term, yes, the cancer will spiral out of control, so I'd stop using it, and use the sodium ascorbate you were advised to use :D

[Doni]

If you use it long term, yes, the cancer will spiral out of control, so I'd stop using it, and use the sodium ascorbate you were advised to use :D

Oh shit.
I am so mad I never checked properly before I left the shop, I asked for sodium ascorbate and was shown to it, and I grabbed a sachet.
I hope I haven't made things worse for my dog now. Shit!

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

cool it... :hug: What's done is done. Get some magnesium into the dog, and feed her only foods which will alkalinise, in other words the BARF diet (Bones and raw food) and the dog's body will adjust...

[Doni]

cool it... :hug: What's done is done. Get some magnesium into the dog, and feed her only foods which will alkalinise, in other words the BARF diet (Bones and raw food) and the dog's body will adjust...

Cool thanks. Already doing the food thing anyway, so thats all good.