Bone 101.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

This is stickied, because people don't realise just how much "bones" are the foundation of our total health.

At some point, I will put up a summary, but I'm not doing that until I know people have thought this through for themselves, (and then... maybe, people can perhaps write the summary for me). I've already written this up for another book not yet published, but what this thread will do is take you back to the process I had to revise when writing for the unpublished book.

first word of warning. Always take medical articles with more than a grain of salt. Read them carefully and evaluate their message. But lets look at what IS known.

(Extra Cellular Matrix, which is a highly technical way of saying the basic superstructure upon which the strengthening minerals will be hung...)

I ain't gonna do all your thinking for you. I will "direct" this thread, so that eventually you will see some logical order in it.

First lesson: Bone Development and Structure. (http://www.nsbri.org/HumanPhysSpace/focus6/ep_development.html) Yes, the URL is there, but I've attached a pdf of the page in case it walks, as internet pages are wont to do.

You might think this page on Biomechanics (http://www.engin.umich.edu/class/bme456/bonestructure/bonestructure.htm) is the same, but it's not and it will give you a much better appreciation of bone, and this article reinforces what those who know me, are sick of me saying: "Bone is also a good starting point because it illustrates the principle of hierarchical structure function that is common to all biological tissues."

(I attempted to upload the pdf of the page, but the site programme has some gliches in it, and won't upload that pdf. I have it in my data base as bonestruct.pdf)

You get your bones wrong, and the whole of the rest of you goes west with it, so look after your bones, and you'll be looking after the rest of you... teeth and soft tissue.

Message Number one.

URL: What YOU eat during your pregnancy, and during lactation (http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/135/11/2728S) has long term bone consequences and, "Maternal smoking, diet (particularly vitamin D deficiency), and physical activity also appear to modulate bone mineral acquisition during intrauterine life; furthermore, both low birth size and poor childhood growth are directly linked to the later risk of hip fracture. "

So what you do now as a mum, is very important, and in order to have the incentive to do it right, it's important to know how bone is made (if you are going to grow it/fix it quickly and efficiently).

It's important to know what happens when the mineral balance starts to go wrong. People talk about osteoporosis, but the reality is that osteo only starts, when mineral balances has been out of whack for some time, and much of that can be laid at the door of the food people consider "normal" today.

Doctors only see calcium when it comes to osteo, yet actually they should be seeing Multiple mineral problems, like, boron, magnesium, silica, zinc. ...

I want to talk about "first level cortical bone structure (FLCBS)... which only occurs in two situations. If you've read the bone structure pdf properly, you will know this.

1) Under the age of five.
2) trauma at bone fracture sites.

So "woven bone" is a response to the body needing bone "now". While this bone requires the same building blocks as bone "grown and recycled" over a long period of time, FLCBS bone collagen formation is random.

In constantly turned over bone, the collagen fibrils are is a specific set pattern,not random like woven bone..., which is amazing to see. collagen gives bone flexibility...... and the orientation of the different angle of the fibrils, determines the angle of the holes in which mineral crytals (which give strength) are laid. 80% of those are calcium/phosphorus, but the crucial ones which LOCK IN THOSE TWO, are the minerals, magnesium, boron etc.

this diagramme in the bone structure page, gives and idea of some of the collagen fibril patterns:

http://www.engin.umich.edu/class/bme456/bonestructure/plywood2.jpg

So, first the foundation, which as we KNOW... is... a collagen. You can't make collagen without???

See the pdf below, called Brickley Skeletal manifestations.

Vitamin C is truly the foundation of life, and when you start to understand how many enzyme and other vital processes it starts, is when you begin to realize how deficient is anyone's brain who might accept that an RDA (Recommended Daily Allowance) is 70 mgs a day :rolleyes:

In order make good collagen, you also need chondroitin sulphate and glucosamine, neither of which are much use without a source of.... gelatin. But none of those three can be processed or made without.... vitamin C.

The following highlighted words are all URLs to medical articles all of which look at different aspects:

Rat bone formation is similar to humans, and studies with rats have also shown that any deficient in calcium AND IRON (http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/abstract/132/10/3135), is going to have problems.

"In two human studies, boron deprivation caused changes in variables associated with calcium metabolism in a manner that could be construed as being detrimental to bone formation and maintenance; these changes apparently were enhanced by low dietary magnesium. Changes caused by boron deprivation included depressed plasma ionized calcium and calcitonin as well as elevated plasma total calcium and urinary excretion of calcium. In one human study, magnesium deprivation depressed plasma ionized calcium and cholesterol. Because boron and/or magnesium deprivation (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2222801)causes changes similar to those seen in women with postmenopausal osteoporosis, these elements are apparently needed for optimal calcium metabolism and are thus needed to prevent the excessive bone loss which often occurs in postmenopausal women and older men."

"Evidence from numerous laboratories using a variety of experimental models, including humans, shows that boron is a bioactive beneficial element. Much evidence has come from studies that did not require nutritional or environmental stressors or fastidious methods in diet preparation or environmental control. The evidence includes deprivation studies showing that boron is necessary for some higher animals to complete the life cycle, and that realistic low boron intakes result in impaired bone health, brain function, and immune response (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18366532). Thus, low boron intake is a relevant nutritional concern, which diets rich in fruits, vegetables, nuts, and pulses can prevent."

"Minerals associated with bone organic matrix, zinc and potassium, were increased by boron supplementation in tibia. Plasma phospholipids were decreased by boron deprivation in females, but not males. Plasma cholesterol was decreased in boron-supplemented males by replacing canola oil with palm oil. The findings suggest that a diet high in omega-3 alpha-linolenic acid promotes femur strength best when the dietary boron is adequate. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15665386)..."

"there is considerable evidence that both compositional and functional properties of bone are affected by boron (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7889880)status"

but also impacting on that is Zinc. (http://www.ebmonline.org/cgi/reprint/229/4/303)

Vitamin K (http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/125/7/1812), vitamin K (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/80/4/1075), and vitamin K applying to both men and women (http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/reprint/89/10/4904). which is what you'd expect because vitamin K forms a mineral bond with calcium and phosphorus, and pulls them into that base matrix.

Other dietary components, such as protein, magnesium, zinc, copper, iron, fluoride, vitamins D, A, C, and K (http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/19/6/715) are required for normal bone metabolism,.. more on protein (http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/24/suppl_6/526S). Protein consumption is an important predictor (http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/137/12/2674) of lower limb bone density in older women. Protein is important in bone building particularly in vegetarians, because collagen is made from complete amino acids. So vegetarians must take particular care when putting combining foods to create complete amino acids, so that the body can take from it to make collagen. Those who eat chicken, meat etc, have a complete protein handed them on a plate, particularly if they have bone broths, and gelatine broths. Protein in the absense of calcium (http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/137/12/2674)(and other minerals) means that it doesn't quite "work"... you might get collagen formatin, but the mineral matrix will be weak. Even tea drinking (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/86/4/1243), conveys minerals like manganese, which are beneficial to bones.

http://www.health-science-spirit.com/magnesiumchloride.html

"Medical authorities claim that the widespread incidence of osteoporosis and tooth decay in western countries can be prevented with a high calcium intake. However, published evidence reveals that the opposite is true. Asian and African populations with a very low intake of about 300 mg of calcium daily have very little osteoporosis. Bantu women with an intake of 200 to 300 mg of calcium daily have the lowest incidence of osteoporosis in the world. In western countries with a high intake of dairy products the average calcium intake is about 1000 mg. The higher the calcium intake, especially in the form of cows' milk products (except butter) the higher the incidence of osteoporosis.

Calcium, magnesium and phosphorus levels are kept in a seesaw balance by the parathyroid hormones. If calcium goes up, magnesium goes down and vice versa. With a low magnesium intake, calcium goes out of the bones to increase tissue levels, while a high magnesium intake causes calcium to go out of the tissues into the bones. A high phosphorus intake without a high calcium or magnesium intake causes calcium to leach from the bones and leave the body with the urine. A high phosphorus intake with high calcium and magnesium leads to bone mineralisation.

Dr Barnett, an orthopaedic surgeon practised in two different U.S. counties with very different soil and water mineral levels. In Dallas County with a high calcium and low magnesium concentration osteoporosis and hip fractures were very common, while in Hereford with high magnesium and low calcium these were nearly absent. In Dallas County the magnesium content of bones was 0.5% while in Hereford it was 1.76%. In another comparison the magnesium content in bones of osteoporosis sufferers was 0.62% while in healthy individuals it was 1.26%.

The same applies for healthy teeth. In a New Zealand study it was found that caries-resistant teeth had on average twice the amount of magnesium as caries-prone teeth. The average concentration of magnesium phosphate in bones is given as about 1%, in teeth about 1.5%, in elephant tusks 2% and in the teeth of carnivorous animals made to crush bones it is 5%. In regard to the strength of bones and teeth think of calcium as chalk and of magnesium as superglue. The magnesium superglue binds and transforms the chalk into superior bones and teeth."

Too much preformed vitamin A (http://folk.uio.no/runeb/pdf%20filer/Vitamin%20A%20toxicity.PDF) causes serious bone problems (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/83/2/191), but remember, if you are doing the balance with vitamin D, vitamin C and exercise right, that's not an issue (http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/129/12/2246.pdf). At least in rats :giggle: .

the key to good strength in bones is vitamin K and minerals from fruit and veges (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/82/3/700): no doubt about it.

So why the concentration by doctors on calcium alone? And just how many people on calcium supplements show much real improvement? If you carry on shoving in calcium all the time, you pull OUT the magnesium. If you're not eating enough calcium in the first place, and some doctors estimate that that's 70% of the western population, that too causes pullout of calcium from the bones, which is then depositted in soft tissue, which doesn't just harden the arteries, but can harden heart muscles and do a whole raft of nasty things.

With kids, or adults, you never know when someone is going to break a bone, but if that happens, it's important to know what to do and why.

And to understand what to do and why, you have to know HOW bone is made in the first place. it's actually very fascinating.

Bearing in mind that, as this 2006 study (http://www.ismni.org/jmni/pdf/26/27DALLAS.pdf) says, there is a lot they don't know about bone growth :giggle: :giggle:
these studies suggest that cells within the bone environment may be more dynamic than previously thought and highlight novel cell-mediated mechanisms for the assembly and subsequent reorganization of the ECM.

I believe that the fundamentals above, are probably stuff in retrospect, that you already know yourself.

So if you eat a Standard American Diet, think again, because you might not just be heading for osteo yourself, but you could donate problems to your children.

All that... is called.... epigenetics :p

Now, do not complain of brain fag :D

[Wonder-Full]

OK, making my way through the links - about a 1/3 of the way there. Certainly very interesting and more intent on getting DS's Vitamin D levels up asap. Intersting about the exercise/physcial stress link too - need to get myself some exercise more regularly if I want to maintain bone density.

Hmmm, interesting about the "first level cortical bone structure (FLCBS)"

I think I must have some woven bone. I broke my upper arm bone right through when I was about 7 (gymastics accident and fell backwards and stuck arm out and snapped it). I cannot bend that arm properly anymore (ie cannot touch my shoulder with my fingers on that arm) - it's like it locks well before getting there and sounds like this is the problem. It needed bone "right now" and formed it.

Will continue on with reading tomorrow...

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

The first 5 pages of this pdf paper (http://www.sbaoi.org/pdf/vol-22(2)/20080327-16.pdf) is not only a good summary of bone, but has fantastic pictures on page 4.

elsewhere we were talking about acid/alkaline balance. Note this quote in this paper:



6. Acid-base balance: Bone buffers the blood against excessive pH hanges by absorbing or releasing alkaline salts.


This also raises an interesting point. Teeth are an extension of bone. Bone is a hyrdroxy apetite.
http://www.nidcr.nih.gov/Research/ResearchResults/InterviewsOHR/TIS052005.htm so is a tooth, but it's different:


"Take dental enamel. It begins to form in the tooth bud not as the hard, white substance so familiar to us in the mirror, but as a soft, protein-rich matrix specked with mineral crystals called calcium hydroxy apatite. When a tooth finally erupts through the gums, the original protein matrix is gone. In its place is a tissue that is nearly 100 percent calcium hydroxy apatite, raising the question: What happened to the protein matrix? Researchers know that the matrix and its dominant protein amelogenin initially serve as a template that nature has designed to orchestrate the spatial and temporal dynamics of the mineralization process."


You can guarantee one thing though. If the body processes aren't good enough to make good bone, they will also not be good enough to make good teeth.


Please watch this demo about how teeth grow (http://science.education.nih.gov/supplements/nih2/oral-health/activities/accessible/howteethgrow.htm). Notice the comment about how the roots of primary teeth resorb so that the teeth can fall out. Have you ever wondered what happened to the roots of your children's teeth and why they are almost non-existent when they fall out?


Have a look at this page (http://dentistry.uic.edu/CraniofacialGenetics/ResearchTED.htm), and look at figure 2, to see the structure of enamel development, and remember that happens when YOU are pregnant.


The teeth process is a bit like bone process, in that the roots are resorbed so that the primary teeth can fall out. There are some similarities with bone development, but major difference. However, one thing remains constant, and that is that the correct mineral balance for bone, applies to laying down good teeth..


There are many who say that teeth are the same and if your diet is good enough, you can remineralise cavities. The composion of teeth is similar to bone but not in minute structure, because teeth are harder and contains less organic matter than bone.


You can see here (http://www.usc.edu/hsc/dental/ccmb/images/Bites/fw2000/enamfeath2.jpg), that the structure of enamal is quite different to bone, and this picture (http://www.usc.edu/hsc/dental/ccmb/images/Bites/fw2000/enamsem.jpg) shows you a more close up of the enamel rods and interrods. (This is the full page (http://www.usc.edu/hsc/dental/ccmb/pages/Bits/2000fw/Achievement.htm) with lots of geekspeak)


But it's interesting that people who get severe scurvy (vitamin C deficiency) not only find their teeth loosening from the jaw, because of the breaking down of the periodontal ligament, and the protein "cementum" which holds them in, but they also get a lot of caries as well.


Many dental researchers believe that teeth are gene driven, but many people with "bad teeth" appear to have proven that teeth can be retrieved, so the jury is out as to whether the influence on teeth is genetic or epigenetic. I believe it's epigenetic.


Therefore, we are, what we eat. if you have an acid body, minerals will dissolve. A more alkaline body will cause minerals to be depositted in teeth. If your body gets acid, minerals will be pulled out to try to rectify that... so if you are constantly acidic, your bone minerals are constantly being removed to try to bring your body ph to a more alkaline one.

Tricky. And obvious what will happen if you don't get that balance right.

[Wonder-Full]

In your first post, the link about iron doesn't link through correctly. It has a beyond vaccination link prior to the one you want to link to.

[Spy]

My grandmother (dads mum) had a very peculiar condition - by the age of 20 she literally had no unbroken bone in her body. I think it was a bone density issue, which, combined with motor coordination issue (she would fall a lot, all her life) resulted in frequent fractures - pretty much every time she would fall she would break something. Ribs and spine included. All healed nicely while she was young and not so nicely when she got older. She died with an unhealed hip fracture that was there for some 20 years, I hardly remember her without crutches. Her teeth were, surprisingly, not that bad!

Interestingly enough, her son, my dad, had much, much worse teeth issues but no fragile bone issues. He might have had a few fractures as a kid, but just one or two if that.

I am supposed to be the clone of the said grandmother (according to the rest of the family, from the way we look to the character, etc), and I never had a broken bone, even in the nastiest of my falls (I am also clumsy, maybe not as bad as her, but definitely similar). I had sprains, torn ligaments, but no fractures. And my teeth are much, much better than both my dads and my grandmothers. Not perfect, but okay - as in, all still there at 40 and last dentist visit 5 years ago sort of thing.

Looks like my grandmothers bone issues were nutrition-related (malnutrition, to be exact), which either affected my dads teeth or he had his own nutritional issues to blame, which I probably didn't have. Is that what we call epigenetic? :D

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

I think we can all compound previous issues. Epigenetics gives a new take on that bible verse which says the sins of the parents can reverberate down through three generations. Perhaps both physically and spiritually.

Maybe your grandmother didn't get enough magnesium. Her teeth enamel would have been determined in utero by her mother. As that tooth demonstration shows, the first teeth and the tops of the second are formed in utero. It's the insides and the movement which is under epigenetic control. So, she had good teeth. But if her own mineral assimulation wasn't good, then she would have had problems giving children developing inside her, good teeth. however, if your father had better nutrition than his mother, then his bones would have been okay. But because the enamel of his teeth were determined in utero, that might explain his teeth.

This is one reason why I am adamant that unless a mother really knows her minerals and nutrients she should not get pregnant until the first child is at least two. She has to give her body chance to regroup and rebuild. IMO, it's not fair on the child in utero, particularly if the mother continues to feed the first one, is a mother does pregnancy on pregnancy.

You'd have to be right on top of all the nutrients and be eating correctly for three not to short change a child in utero, because the impact of that can be life long, as it determines the gene expression in that child, and that is so important...

Attached is a pdf of a working document on bone formation. this is not finished but it's a start.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

New file added above.

[Mr. Beyondtheory]

I have just finished doing a presentation on my yoga course on the skeleton, and wish I'd found this thread beforehand. Me and my partner made the point that we think teeth are part of the skeleton, are really just specialised bones, and it is good to see some hard facts on here that back us up.

I made the point that Phoshorus is an acidic mineral that has a special relationship with calcium. Calcium Phosphate is the main mineral complex of bone, but they dance together in the blood too. They must be kept in balance though in the blood, and if someone drinks a bit of coca cola, or other soft drinks with their phosphoric acid, then the rise in blood phosphorus will cause the body to bring out calcium from the bones to balance it out. Cow's milk is also high in phosphorus, so can have a similar effect.

Basically soft drink and dairy with their high phosphorus and acidity, are good at stripping calcium out of the bones (& teeth!). My partner in this presentation is a dental assistent, and she said they often get young people in the dental chair with all these holes in their teeth. Their teeth, she told me, look like swiss cheeze. Apparently this is what drinking fizzy drinks like fanta and pepsi does.

Agree with you Momtezma about the vital importance of magnesium. Evidently minerals like calcium and phosphorus get laid down into bones via a crystalization process which is magnesium dependent. Not enough magnesium and you won't lay down enough calcium. Boron seems to be found in high amounts in endocrine glands like the parathyroids and thyroid which play important parts in regulating the skeleton.

[Mr. Beyondtheory]

Boron is a regulator in the plant world of calcium too, adding further to the argument it is crucial to bone health. Which foods are highest in boron? Well, it is only found in traces, but highest of all apparently is raisins, followed by hazelnuts, then almonds, then avocado.

[justine]

I remember reading 'Your life in your hands' by Pr Jane Plant. This is a book about breast cancer - she thinks that dairy is the cause. She said the countries and cultures that do not have dairy included in their diet have very low levels of breast cancer and osteoporosis. She then went on to write a book about osteoporosis and how she excludes all dairy. She is a vegan. She details her diet and gives information about nutrients. I think I have reccomended this book b4 but think that it is worth another mention in this thread as it ties in.

many thanks.

[Mr. Beyondtheory]

She is a top scientist and gives loads of good information about why modern cows milk is bad news in more ways than one.

Breast cancer is a hormone related cancer...that's why the docs sometimes nuke to death a woman with breast cancer's ovaries. This is indeed what Jane Plant had happen to her.

So it makes perfect sense that milk, which is full of hormones, and modern cow's milk in particular which has much higher levels than in the past, due to selective breeding by farmers to get cows that fill up huge udders faster than ever before, in order to maximise profits, could be implicated in breast cancer rates which just keep going up.

But apart from that from Yoga's point of view the modern cow is mistreated. In the USA and Europe where they factory farm, the cows never see the light of day, and don't exercise much. They live in miserable conditions, and are fed untold antibiotics due to their proneness to get sick in such beastly conditions. Is it any wonder that their milk is not the best? It carries stress in it, and is very different to the milk produced from happy pastured cows.

[justine]

Does anyone know where you could buy Raw milk from happy cows? Auckland.

[Wonder-Full]

http://www.realmilk.com/where-other.html#nz

You will need to find a place that allows you to buy a "share" in a cow (something like $30 most likely) and that is how you get around the legalities of famers not being able to supply raw milk to the public.

[Mr. Beyondtheory]

There are two farms that sell raw milk at the gate as it were. One is near Helensville. I did that for a while, but the petrol cost got to me. The milk itself is much cheaper than the stuff in supermarkets....and nicer tasting.

But you know what? It was still pretty hard for me to digest, despite being raw, and it exacerbated an acid reflux problem I have. I am now convinced that we don't need to consume dairy. African bantus have a very low calcium intake..about 350gms a day or less because they're poor, and mainly vegetarian non dairy consumers.

Yet they have very low rates of osteoporosis compared to the West. In fact the countries that have the highest rates are big dairy consuming nations, like the USA & NZ.

The thing is calcium is found in lots of things. Tahini, seaweed, almonds, kale etc. are all excellent sources. Research is revealing that it is a simplistic myth to think that by upping calcium intake you are strengthening the bones. It is a myth that has the dairy companies laughing all the way to the bank!

As this thread is pointing out bone strength comes from manifold factors, and probably the most important would be getting exercise, having enough magnesium & boron, and making sure your diet is not acidic.

The low acidic part is probably where Westerners are falling down most....we eat far too much protein which is acid-forming. Dairy is high in proteins, as are eggs. Even vegetarians can eat too much protein if they consume a ton of nuts, eggs, and cheese. When you eat too much acid your body compensates, and tries to buffer the acidic blood with alkaline minerals like calcium.

And guess where that comes from? the bones....because the bones act as a reservoir of calcium for the body to use. Calcium is constantly being moved from bone to bone, governed by hormones released by the thyroid and parathyroid glands. 99% of it is stored in the bones at any one time, but that other 1% performs crucial roles in the chemical processes of a living body. But anyway, an acidic body is a body that is very slowly having it's skeleton stripped of calcium.

[TanyaL]

Everyone else probably knows this already, but it's new to me and is opening up a whole new world of possibilities. Herbal infusions, easier than making tea and an easy way to get extra nutrients in. I'm still in beginning-basics land, but nettles have calcium and a lot of other minerals that work with calcium. In the US, there's a book available,

http://www.amazon.com/Nutritional-Herbology-Reference-Guide-Herbs/dp/1885653077/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1243895687&sr=8-1

Nutritional Herbology by Mark Pedersen, he measured a lot of herbs for vitamin and mineral content. No idea if it's available outside the US. Seems like getting enough magnesium to balance the calcium is the hardest part (and I'm willing to supplement anyway), but other than the mag issue, a lot of herbs have a wide array of minerals.

[ema-adama]

PMID: 18365832

Autoimmunity. (javascript:AL_get(this,%20'jour',%20'Autoimmunity .');) 2008 Apr;41(3):195-203.


The interplay between the immune system and bone metabolism has been recognized as important for both of these systems. Various factors produced and released during immune responses markedly affect bone cells and bone metabolism.


These processes are the reason for the bone loss observed in variety of infectious diseases.

I do not know if this fits in here, or if you have already covered this here MT - but I thought I would add it anyway.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Actually the biggest reason for bone loss in infectious disease, is the priority use of vitamin C to fight the infection. Given that bone turnover is a continuous process, and the fundamental step for bone formation is vitamin C, you'd expect bone loss in disease, UNLESS the person concerned was wise enough to add in extra vitamin C to try to prevent that.

[gilima]

Tanya, thanks for that link, I am going to get that book....just what i need now:)

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

I've added some pdfs to the first post.

[ema-adama]

Tanya - I have just found the book in your post (I haven't bought it, but I have been looking into it). Do you know more about facilitating absorbtion of minerals using herbs?

[TanyaL]

Tanya - I have just found the book in your post (I haven't bought it, but I have been looking into it). Do you know more about facilitating absorbtion of minerals using herbs?

Nope, I am an herb newbie. Now that we've been doing nettles and red clover infusions more regularly, I think it's interesting that my 5yo DD is asking for them.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

sounds like her body knows what it needs :D