Is this a joke?

[Nirvana]

I have been trying to catch up on some info on the BCG vaccine for someone who's pregnant at 44 and has a son who's 20, with a kidney transplant (immunosuppressed.)

I wanted to know if the BCG vax sheds because this is the first vax a baby in India will receive with the Hep B shot :mad: This family knows how angry vaccines make me but I don't think they will refuse any vaxes inspite of me telling them how useless this vax is.

I started with the WHO site
http://www.who.int/vaccine_research/diseases/tb/vaccine_development/bcg/en/index.html

Safety

After extensive tests in animals, BCG was first used as a vaccine in 1921. It was given orally to infants. Since this time the vaccine has been widely used. Today, it is estimated that more than 1 billion people have received BCG.
BCG is widely used and the safety of this vaccine has not been a serious issue until recently. There is a concern that use of the vaccine in persons who are immune compromised may result is an infection caused by the BCG itself. Also, even among immune competent persons, local reactions, including ulceration at the site of vaccination may result in shedding of live organisms which could infect others who may be immune compromised.
The early use of BCG was marked by a tragic accident. In Lubeck more than 25% of the approximately 250 infants who received a batch of the vaccine developed tuberculosis. It was later recognized that this batch was accidentally contaminated with a virulent strain of M. tuberculosis.
BCG production and substrains

The BCG vaccines that are currently in use are produced at several (seven?) sites throughout the world. These vaccines are not identical. To what extent they differ in efficacy and safety in humans is not clear at present. Some differences in molecular and genetic characteristics are known. What is not known is if the "BCG" from one manufacturer is "better" than one produced at another site. Each BCG is now know by the location where it is produced. For example, we have BCG (Paris), BCG (Copenhagen), BCG (Tice) and BCG (Montreal) among others.


So it's so obvious how terrific this vax is and still it is being used all over in India, Gulf countries, etc!! I got the vax as a baby and then went onto get a disseminated form on TB at the age of three! Wonderful isn't it?

If it's so crystal clear, why don't the good docs do something? Why is everyone just blindly following the herd? Why are poor, innocent babies being turned into scapegoats? :mad::(

[Spy]

Because we have such a high rate of tuberculosis that without the vaccine we will die entirely. :alien: :crazy: Never mind that the very places who routinely vaccinate with BCG for the last 100 years feature the highest rates of TB in the world regardless. Chicken or the egg? :p

I think I got three doses instead of one because that 'ulceration at the site' didn't happen which at the time was deemed 'ineffective vaccination' and 'required' a repetition until the desired ulcer appears (never did!) :rolleyes:

[Nirvana]

I think I got three doses instead of one because that 'ulceration at the site' didn't happen which at the time was deemed 'ineffective vaccination' and 'required' a repetition until the desired ulcer appears (never did!) :rolleyes:

OMG three times? How old were you? You in NZ right?

I read that smallpox vax is also associated with consumption also known as TB. My dad got the smallpox vax in school and then got TB at the age of 20. :mad:

That bump at the injection site is still true. If a child does not have that, revaccination is done. At least that's what I think I read somewhere in a clinic.

I recently read that TB in India kills one person every three minutes or something like that. The BCG vax is given blindly here since so many years....why no decline?? No one asks...no one bothers.

[Spy]

I am from Russia. Now live in Australia for 6 1/2 years. The first dose would have been at birth, then somewhere at 12 months they would have realized I 'non-reacted', and repeated and probably a year later there would have been another, I don't remember exactly, I read my records last maybe 10 years ago. First 5 years of my life I apparently had one non-stop tonsillitis, which ended with tonsillectomy at the age of 5. They since dropped the 'blister = immunity' idiocy, luckily, but I happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I am currently playing with izopathic potencised BCG vaccine hoping to undo some of the issues that still last (which may or may not happen as it's been a long time and I am not sure I am right about causality), and in the very beginning of my protocol my throat reminded me straight away about this childhood nightmare. Who was that who called BCG the 'goldmine for ear nose and throat specialists'? :giggle::giggle: Jean Elmigar I think...

[Nirvana]

Spy, I happen to know a girl who at the age of 3 or 2.5 years had to undergo a tonsillectomy too because her tonsils were always giving her problems. Now this girl this 4 and still gets lots of throat-related problems. She is currently on antibiotics for 10 days for pharyngitis. She also always has UTIs. She's just 4 for crying out loud!!

I had no clue that the bcg vax has been implicated with ENT issues. What's the connection here?


I am currently playing with izopathic potencised BCG vaccine hoping to undo some of the issues that still last (which may or may not happen as it's been a long time and I am not sure I am right about causality), and in the very beginning of my protocol my throat reminded me straight away about this childhood nightmare

You lost me there :o What is izopathic potencised?? Please do tell me what this is. My childhood alternative practitioner told my mom that I will have to take very very good care of my diet and nutrition all my life because the TB may resurrect it's ugly head anytime I play slack.

Guess too much info for my tiny brain :D

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Potentized isopathy is where the BCG vaccine (or any vaccine) is potentised and used as a homeopathic remedy in the same way that if a singer flicks the edge of a crystal glass, and then sings exactly that note with no deviation from the glass tone, the glass will shatter.

Some homeopaths have had astounding successes with cases of long standing damage doing this. My attitude to it, is that if, as doctors say, there is nothing in a homeopathic remedy, then what has anyone to lose? And if they lose their symptoms, then what a wunnerful placebo that was....:P

[Spy]

Well, MT got it exactly right, and it only makes sense to do when there are noticeable problems as a result of vaccination. This way, you can see whether they go away or not.

Taking good care of your diet and nutrition is not a bad idea regardless of tuberculosis :D and the same applies to pretty much entire population since this infection has been with humans for many many centuries.

BCG is live bovine tuberculosis mycobacteria. When this gets into a childs system, it is an awful burden and is hard to process, very often lymph system gets involved, it lasts for months/years, and somehow this thing triggers respiratory disaster where all mucous membranes get pretty much constantly inflamed and react to anything the child catches, sometimes, for years as well. How can anyone believe that this nightmare creates immunity to TB is beyond me.:rolleyes:

[Nirvana]

Potentized isopathy is where the BCG vaccine (or any vaccine) is potentised and used as a homeopathic remedy in the same way that if a singer flicks the edge of a crystal glass, and then sings exactly that note with no deviation from the glass tone, the glass will shatter.

Some homeopaths have had astounding successes with cases of long standing damage doing this. My attitude to it, is that if, as doctors say, there is nothing in a homeopathic remedy, then what has anyone to lose? And if they lose their symptoms, then what a wunnerful placebo that was....:P

I still don't understand this MT. Gosh it looks so simple and still I don't understand :o:confused:

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

1 drop of BCG vaccine with 100 drops of distilled water, and vodka?? I think?? it is either succussed, or knocked on the hand until your arm drops off, or you put it in a machine and it rattles on about a couple of hundred times.

Then one drop of that, and 100 drops of distilled water.. and so it goes on, depending on what potency. The early homeopaths mainly used a 6 times dilution, but many today, you a 100, 200 or 1,000 times.

Which is where your brain disconnects, because after 12 times sucussion there is nothing left of the original ingredient.

Homeopaths say that the energy imprint left is like a "nuclear explosion" where by splitting an atom, you release unseen energy into the carrier fluid.

Doctors roll around laughing saying that that is ludicrous.

India is the home of homeopathy publishing, and there are a lot of homeopaths there. They tend to know more about it than western countries.

Because our eldest son had a very rough birth, he didn't handle shock well. The homeopathic remedy for shock is Aconite, and usually a 30 potency is enough to help children. But his experience was so deep that only a 1,000th succussion potency would bring Ian out of shock, right to the age of 12.

After that he seemed to cope with accidents okay.

I digress...

[MinorityView]

I see it as reversing the usual medical approach.

The assumption is that we are physical beings only, and if you fix the physical body, then all is well.

However, if we also have non-physical "parts" which, for example, regulate and maintain our physical body, then treating those parts with non-physical remedies makes perfect sense. And the potentizing process moves substances from the physical on up. Very ingenious actually.

It is sort of like fixing the software on a computer instead of endlessly operating on the hardware. Sometimes human beings have software problems which mess with our hardware.

I bet that didn't help at all :)

[Nirvana]

Thank you both MT and MV for your very kind and helpful explanations.

Spy, how long you been on this protocol? Seen any improvements...if you don't mind my asking. :)

[Spy]

Only a few weeks, not so far, but I wouldn't expect anything I had for a lifetime to disappear even before the protocol runs out. :D Just another week to go and then we'll see. At least my throat 'answered', so I know the stuff works.

[Spy]

Finished the protocol last week, and having another 'hit by a train' moment today for no apparent reason. With funny swollen red face... :alien:

I tell you what - if I felt half as bad at the time (don't remember now of course), only from BCG, what are the modern day babies going through? :eek:

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

They can't tell us. All they do is cry, and parents are told that all babies do that...

[MinorityView]

But babies don't cry all the time if there isn't something wrong.

Although my granddaughter had a temper, even as an infant, and if she didn't get things working the way she wanted she would have screaming fits that went on for hours...and it was clear that it was temper and not pain...her mother became very good at managing life so it went smoothly for dear little Stella.

I would think that most parents would be able to tell the difference between a baby who was aggravated about something and one who was in pain?

[Nirvana]

My DD used to cry a lot as an infant sometime around the time she was vaxed. I called the pedi to ask what could be wrong. He said colic. I thought it was the reflux. But not once did the thought that vaxes could be the prob crossed my mind. In retrospect, I wish I had kept a diary of the times she would cry incessantly to cross-refer with her vax schedule.

Spy, sorry to hear you are feeling under the weather. Is that expected after the protocol?

[Spy]

It's expected during and after, just never exactly clear what to expect. :giggle:Good news is, it is not a real disease, only sort of a faint memory of one and never lasts. Better next day or even sooner.

[Mr. Beyondtheory]

Yes, a return of old symptoms, an echo from the past. A kink is being worked out of your system.

Homeopathy was invented by Dr. Samuel Hahnemann, a brilliant German doctor and chemist, who when he went into practice in the 1780s became quickly disillusioned with medicine at the time. He took to just translating medical textbooks for a living (he was a great linguist, a total polymath).

Anyhow, he ended up rediscovering an old idea that had never been systematically developed...the idea of like curing like. Very industrously and ingeniously he developed the homeopathic medical system, which aims to give tiny doses of remedies based on symptom similarity. So, if you have a cold with weeping eyes, and clear fluid coming out of your nose, then alllium cepa (0nion), will be the remedy that can clear your cold up. That's because in healty people cutting up an onion can cause similar symptoms.

A herb that causes vomiting will cure vomiting.

Homeopathy took off and became quite successful in the 19th century. A lot of people were wary of the medicine of the day with it's dangerous use of bleeding, mercury, arsenic, and complex mixtures of drugs.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Yes, a return of old symptoms, an echo from the past. A kink is being worked out of your system.

Homeopathy was invented by Dr. Samuel Hahnemann, a brilliant German doctor and chemist, who when he went into practice in the 1780s became quickly disillusioned with medicine at the time. He took to just translating medical textbooks for a living (he was a great linguist, a total polymath).

Anyhow, he ended up rediscovering an old idea that had never been systematically developed...the idea of like curing like. Very industrously and ingeniously he developed the homeopathic medical system, which aims to give tiny doses of remedies based on symptom similarity. So, if you have a cold with weeping eyes, and clear fluid coming out of your nose, then alllium cepa (0nion), will be the remedy that can clear your cold up. That's because in healty people cutting up an onion can cause similar symptoms.

A herb that causes vomiting will cure vomiting.

Homeopathy took off and became quite successful in the 19th century. A lot of people were wary of the medicine of the day with it's dangerous use of bleeding, mercury, arsenic, and complex mixtures of drugs.

:D

I suspect Spy could add to that in spades :giggle:

[Mr. Beyondtheory]

India is the home of homeopathy publishing, and there are a lot of homeopaths there. They tend to know more about it than western countries. ~Momtezuma Tuatara



Actually while it is true that if you were to throw a stone into an Indian crowd there'd be a high probability it would hit a homeopath, I would definitely not agree that the Indians know more about homeopathy than in Europe and the USA.

A lot of the leading thinkers in homeopathy are in Europe, homeopathy's birthplace. India has contributed greatly, and Rajan Shankaran is one of the greatest innovators ever, but they are hamstrung by having to often treat masses and masses of people, not having time to delve deeply into people's psychology...which is quite important for chronic prescribing.

[Nirvana]

Spy, how are you feeling now?

[Spy]

Good, that arrgavation was proving-like and didn't last long.