Infected toe

[Ayla]

I have an infected toe :( It's underneath, you know how when you go swimming the skin underneath your big toe can get a little ripped up? One of those tears got yucky after visiting a village in Vanuatu. I treated it with tea tree oil at the time and put a bandaid over it but it got a little worse spreading back under the skin like a blister. I treated it again and it seemed to be on the mend, but I just took off my bandaid and pus poured out of it and it's spread under the skin even further back making a kind of pocket of skin. I treated it with tea tree just now, took an echinacea tablet and am sending DH up for some super vit C which we have run out of. Anything else I can try? Any homeopathics?

[deesalie]

You could try colloidal silver, both topically & internally

Also Silica tissue salts

[Ayla]

Thanks! I'll get DH to get me some Silica tissue salts too. I was thinking maybe a poultice dressing would help, not sure what to use tho.

[Ayla]

After a quick Google, I'll try honey on it.

[Serephina]

Ouch, Ayla that sounds painful (and gross!). Have you got manuka honey you can use on it?

[Quickening]

Yeah was about to drop in and say to use honey on it. UMF 16+ or above has medical benefits so make sure you get a manuka honey that has that or above.

[Aviendha]

Green clay poltice to draw out the infection. I think Rach has some.

[Ayla]

I think I have some green clay around here somewhere, thanks for the tip!

[Ayla]

Okay I"ve put some green clay on it, how long should I leave it for? I made too much too, how can I store it without it setting?

[Aviendha]

Gladwrap and into the fridge.

I would put it on at night, wrap it in a clean disposible rag (like a chux) and leave it on while you sleep. It you want to be super-safe about not getting green clay on your sheets, you can put your foot in a pillow case :)

[Ayla]

Nothing I'm doing is working, and now my toe knuckle is starting to ache. I'm taking 3000-5000mg of vit C every day, multiple silica tablets a day, echinacea tablets, i've tried a honey dressing with hemp, and a green clay dressing. It hurts a lot when I stand and throbs. Is it time to see the doctor? I'm still fully breastfeeding my son and wanted to treat this naturally but it's getting worse.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

I've been thinking about your post, and the suggestions. Twice, I've nearly suggested removing the skin flap and opening it up, cleaning it out with a formula that some people consider very crude... etc.

Clay isn't something I'd use, for the same reason as I'd not use it on umbilical cords or anything else.

I suspect that if you go to a doctor, they are going to cut away the skin, and clean it up and prescribe you antibiotics, because that's what they do.

If you have the "guts" you could "debride" it yourself, but that's your call.

This is what I'd do, but I'm me.

If the flap has increased in size, and is like a blister top, I'd cut it away, and soak the foot in saline solution with hydrogen peroxide added to the water as well. Then I'd expose it to the sun for a while to dry the normal skin,take a biro, and mark the outside edge of any redness, which is infection, put medihoney on it, and then dress it with dressings like paranet with a piece of glad wrap, then a bandage. I'd not be walking on it.

In the morning I'd take the bandage off, and see if the infection has receded back towards the wound, or expanded further up the foot. If it had moved up the foot, I'd consider going to the doctor. If it had reced back towards the original infection site, then I'd carry on with my own treatment.

I'd do another saline solution, medihoney and paranet and have another look in the evening, or earlier if I felt the need.

Obviously, me going to the doctor is somewhat pointless, since they can't give me antibiotics anyway....

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

the formula I use on grazes and cuts is this, and yes... it is crude. But it works.

Just say you want the total quantity to fit in a 100 ml bottle, then:

Take 25 mls hydrogen peroxide
Take 25 mls white vinegar.

Shake both together thoroughly.

Then take 50 mls surgical meths, and shake the whole mix thoroughly.

I have this in a spray bottle and ordinary bottle. I was grazes out with saline, then spray this mix on. If the graze has sand in it, I use 6% hydrogen peroxide neat, to froth up to the surface, as much dirt as possible, and then using a magnifying glass and tweezers, I remove the rest manually. Then I spray it with that.

The combination kills pathogens, and creates a ph level which actually helps the skin get on top of infection (I talk about this in FOPTA). Once the body is on top of it again, I don't use it again... unless infection starts again.

If a wound goes ulcerous, another option is Transfer Factor capsules, which you can snap open and pour the powder into the wound. I've seen TF clean up ulcers infected with Staph Aureus which antibiotics wouldn't touch.

There is quite a bit to know about wound management, and I intend to start a thread on correct wound management, because often, what the hospital or doctors tell you to do is not only a load of bollocks, but it's the opposite of what their own literature tells you is the best way to heal wounds.

[Ayla]

Thanks Hilary, I think I will have a go at removing the flap. I am not going to have a chance to get hydrogen peroxide until tomorrow (from a health food shop? pharmacy?). I just soaked my whole foot in a bucket of warm water with tea tree oil added to it and washed off all the clay. I'm airing it out atm.

[Serephina]

Ayla if your stomach is anything like mine it might be useful to have another person close by while you do it in case of passing out.

[Ayla]

Dave came home early and has checked through his combat first aid kit. He has Betadine which I'll try. This is going to hurt! :S

[Aviendha]

get hydrogen peroxide until tomorrow (from a health food shop? pharmacy?


Yep or price attack.

Hilary, why wouldn't you use green clay?

[Ayla]

I've cut it away and currently soaking it in water I salted myself. I'll air it out and then put a dressing on it. I don't have medihoney, could I just use normal honey? Or something else? Or nothing? I took photos, I'll post them up later.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Yep or price attack.

Hilary, why wouldn't you use green clay? Because it creates anaerobic conditions which is what gram negative and toxin producing bacteria love, and also sucks moisture out of the wound which slows down fluid movement, and in the case of infection, that's not what you want.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

I've cut it away and currently soaking it in water I salted myself. I'll air it out and then put a dressing on it. I don't have medihoney, could I just use normal honey? Or something else? Or nothing? I took photos, I'll post them up later.

What did it look like underneath when you cut the flap away?

Is there a red area indicating infection?

[Ayla]

Yes there was a red area at the new site, the old site was pink. I ended up airing it out, spreading Betadine on it (iodine solution) and putting a dressing & bandage over it. Photos are uploading atm, I'll post the link in a sec.

[Ayla]

Okay, I've put it in as a link here (http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/canterburygrove/Other/Toe2.jpg) so the squeamish don't have to look. You can see at the top where it has spread and that's the area that is red.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Okay, you say the knuckle is hurting... is the top of the toe red as well? Is the red travelling up the toe towards the foot?

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Okay, maybe what I'd do is to use something you have called Jelonet. (We use paranet, but I've just sent some to Quickening, and for whatever reason it smells to her of petrol. She has used jelonet, but it doesn't have much paraffin on it, so she's adding shea butter under that.

The purpose of the jelonet, or paranet, is to put a moist surface right over that.. at least 1 cm out from all the edges. I think Quickening could also tell you how to use a pawpaw salve to do the same thing. You are trying not to let it dry out, but to form a barrier, so that the stuff that leaks out from the wound forms a layer under the net, but won't scab or dry out. When that layer is formed, the new cells being made to heal travel underneath the paranet or jelonet, and healing takes place much faster.

This is what she's doing with her son's arm, and it's working well.

Don't follow the usual instructions which are to dry it out. You only dry it enough so that you can mark the outer edge of the infected area to see if it recedes or not. If it recedes, you're doing the right thing, and you don't need to worry. If it doesn't, you then think again.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

to use paranet or jelonet, you use three layers or in your case, I'd take one sheet and fold it in four and use it as a pad on the area that had the dead skin on it with the infection under it.... I'd then put a small bit of glad wrap on the jelonet, and then I'd use something called tubegauze, and with the applicator, turn it inside out on the applicator so that the smooth side goes next to the toe and over the jelonet. Holding the jelonet in place then draw out the tubegauzout over the end of the toe, do a 360 degree turn, and put the second layer over the first.

It's tricky and you need more length of tubegauze than you thinkyou will...

Then tape the edges down over the base of the toe with Fixomull stretch.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

This is tubegauz in case you don't know it: http://www.labsafety.com/store/Public_Safety/EMS/EMS_First_Aid_Supplies/38016/
You buy it at the chemist.

This is your jelonet http://wound.smith-nephew.com/uk/Product.asp?NodeId=738 but it's not going to have enough parafin on it, if Quickenings experience is anything to go by.

This is fixomull. We use this most of the time... http://wound.smith-nephew.com/nz/node.asp?NodeId=2816 I buy it by the roll.

[Quickening]

If you don't mind strong petrol smells Linn, I can bring the tin of paranet down with me next week and you can try it. If you're worried about infection, use medihoney / UMF 16+ or over then spread a barrier (vaseline, pawpaw salve, shea butter) on some gauze to lay over the honey before taping up your toe.


When that layer is formed, the new cells being made to heal travel underneath the paranet or jelonet, and healing takes place much faster.That and any oozing stuff as it heals goes up through the gauze onto the dressing behind it. You could try one of those crepe bandages cut into strips. They have holes in them similar to the gauze used in jelonet/paranet.

You definitely want to keep it covered even if it looks newly healed. Moist wound healing works really well.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

I'm not sure I'd use crepe. it's stretchy and unless whatever you use keeps it flat it could skid and tear if you walk on it...

I've just talked to my husband and he says that there are two types of gauze bandage. the old type is here:

http://www.meddirect.co.nz/Product.aspx?ProductId=5652

a largish photo is shown: top left. The wider the gaps the better. When you click on the photo on the site it is large...

You could even use Ungvita, which is something a doctor I know who is a wound specialist, uses sometimes. Just smear it on the gauze pad...

http://www.meddirect.co.nz/Resources/Products/5652.sneak.png

he also thinks that you could use the Nexcare soft cloth dressing lengths. It comes 6 cm wide and one metre long. With some judicious removal of bits you don't want, you could fashion that into a toe dressing. He thinks you could get away without jelonet, but you'd have to slather it with Ungvita or something.... and make sure everything sits right.

I think that's a PITA myself and would just use paranet.

[Serephina]

How's your toe today Ayla?

[Ayla]

It feels better but looks the same. I undid the dressing, had a shower, put more Betadine on and some sorbolene cream so the dressing wouldn't stick to it again (I had to soak it off :S), then put a fresh dressing and bandage on. I think the knuckle ache is from lack of movement. I'll see how it is in the morning. I have an appt tomorrow afternoon with the Dr to get the CO form signed and if it's still bad I'll get him to have a look.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

How is it today, Ayla?

[Ayla]

It's getting there, the top half is finally going from red to pink and the bottom half went pink a few days ago. Thanks for asking:) I'll take pics next time I change it.