Questions about cholesterol

[Nirvana]

Yes that is true they are trying to tell all of us that SUDDENLY butter, cream, coconut oil, red meat etc, anything actually with saturated fat IS BAD!!!!!! HOWEVER that is NOT THE CASE!

High cholesterol in humans it could be argued is a sign of longevity but that is a whole different story.

The fact is that heart disease comes from inflamation in the arteries from far too high intake of sugar, trans fats, toxins and too many processed carbohydrates. Cholesterol is produced by your body to heal this. Simple stuff. If it gets sticky then we have a problem.

Everyone produces their own cholesterol... to protect us, not to kill us.

Coconut oil is in fact the most stable oil we can all use.

Now if you don't like the flavour you can buy deoderised versions of the virgin type. I use it for all my cooking.

I am very surprised to read the lines I bolded above. How can cholesterol be good? Aren't people taking meds when their cholesterol levels are high? I don't get it.

[magical1]

Yes I know it sounds strange but it's true. Pharmaceutical companies have convinced the general population that cholesterol is a villan and this is not the case. Cholesterol lowering medication are their bread and butter so to speak. They want EVERYONE... man, woman and child to be on these meds.

When you get some time to sit down and read this article you can educate yourself and pass what you have learnt to others. There are hundreds of articles on the internet that will tell you the same thing but this is a good start.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2005/05/28/cholesterol-heart.aspx

Enjoy.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Here's a website that you might like to look at Nirvana:

http://www.thincs.org/links.htm (http://www.thincs.org/links.htm)

also, when people eat naturally with a good range of foods, the body adjusts everything for itself, to suit itself. it's the SAD diet that causes imbalances. See the attached pdf

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

and if parents would get the basics right, these sorts of recommendations would not even be thought about:


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25556140/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25556140/)

Cholesterol drugs urged for some 8-year-olds

Guidelines recommend treatment for children at high risk for heart disease.

updated 12:56 a.m. ET July 7, 2008
For the first time, an influential doctors group is recommending that some children as young as 8 be given cholesterol-fighting drugs to ward off future heart problems.

It is the strongest guidance ever given by the American Academy of Pediatrics, which released its new guidelines Monday. The academy also recommends low-fat milk for 1-year-olds and wider cholesterol testing.
Dr. Stephen Daniels, of the academy's nutrition committee, says the new advice is based on mounting evidence showing that damage leading to heart disease, the nation's leading killer, begins early in life.

It also stems from recent research showing that cholesterol-fighting drugs are generally safe for children, Daniels said.

Several of these drugs are approved for use in children and data show that increasing numbers are using them.

"If we are more aggressive about this in childhood, I think we can have an impact on what happens later in life ... and avoid some of these heart attacks and strokes in adulthood," Daniels said. He has worked as a consultant to Abbott Laboratories and Merck & Co., but not on matters involving their cholesterol drugs.

Drug treatment would generally be targeted for kids at least 8 years old who have too much LDL, the "bad" cholesterol, along with other risky conditions, including obesity and high blood pressure.

For overweight children with too little HDL, the "good" cholesterol, the first course of action should be weight loss, more physical activity and nutritional counseling, the academy says.

Pediatricians should routinely check the cholesterol of children with a family history of inherited cholesterol disease or with parents or grandparents who developed heart disease at an early age, the recommendations say. Screening also is advised for kids whose family history isn't known and those who are overweight, obese or have other heart disease risk factors.

Screening is recommended sometime after age 2 but no later than age 10, at routine checkups.

The academy's earlier advice said cholesterol drugs should only be considered in children older than 10 after they fail to lose weight. Its previous cholesterol screening recommendations also were less specific and did not include targeted ages for beginning testing.

Because obesity is a risk factor for heart disease and often is accompanied by cholesterol problems, the academy recommendations say low-fat milk is appropriate for 1 year-olds "for whom overweight or obesity is a concern."

Daniels, a pediatrician in the Denver area, agreed that could include virtually all children. But he said doctors may choose to offer the new milk advice only to 1-year-olds who are already overweight or have a family history of heart problems.

The academy has long recommended against reduced-fat milk for children up to age 2 because saturated fats are needed for brain development. "But now we have the obesity epidemic and people are thinking maybe this isn't such a good idea," said Dr. Frank Greer of the University of Wisconsin, co-author of the guidelines report, which appears in the July edition of Pediatrics, the group's medical journal.

Very young children are increasingly getting fats from sources other than milk and Greer said the updated advice is based on recent research showing no harm from reduced-fat milk in these youngsters.

With one-third of U.S. children overweight and about 17 percent obese, the new recommendations are important, said Dr. Jennifer Li, a Duke University children's heart specialist.

"We need to do something to stem the tide of childhood obesity," Li said.
Li said that 15 years ago most of her patients with cholesterol problems had an inherited form of cholesterol disease not connected to obesity.
"But now they're really outnumbered" by overweight kids with cholesterol problems and high blood pressure, she said.

Dr. Elena Fuentes-Afflick, a pediatrics professor at the University of California at San Francisco, also praised the new advice but said some parents think their kids will outgrow obesity and cholesterol problems, and might not take it seriously.

"It's hard for people to really understand" that those problems in childhood can lead to serious health consequences in adulthood, Fuentes-Afflick said.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2008/07/06/2008-07-06_american_academy_of_pediatrics_urging_ki.html (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2008/07/06/2008-07-06_american_academy_of_pediatrics_urging_ki.html)

American Academy of Pediatrics urging kids to take cholesterol-fighting drugs
BY Jane H. Furse
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
Sunday, July 6th 2008, 9:12 PM
For the first time, the American Academy of Pediatrics (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/American+Academy+of+Pediatrics) is urging doctors to give kids as young as 8 cholesterol-fighting drugs.


It's the strongest guidance issued by the influential group, which has raised alarms over the growing number of obese children at risk of heart disease.


Children between the ages of 2 and 10 with a family history of high cholesterol or with parents or grandparents who got heart disease at an early age should be screened, the AAP said. Children who are overweight or have other heart disease risk factors, and those with an unknown family history, also should be tested.


Doctors also should consider putting patients who are at least 8 and have too much LDL - the so-called "bad" cholesterol - along with other risky conditions like obesity and high blood pressure on cholesterol-lowering drugs, the group said.


The academy also recommended children age 1 and older with a family history of obesity and heart disease should drink 1% or 2% low-fat milk.

[MinorityView]

So, they are modifying the recommendations about milk. Recommending drugs. How about banning sodas? Junk food?

Insane.

[Lexie]

What?! 8 year olds?! Sigh...what's next? Giving pregnant women cholesterol meds?

We just started supplementing with virgin coconut oil and we like it lots. :)

[deesalie]

OMFG what's next??

How about addressing nutritional & lifestyle problems first? Oh no wait, that won't make enough money.....

[Lexie]

Yeah, they're too busy thinking about the lovely lab fees for routine cholesterol tests for everyone.

[Nirvana]

OMG! They won't spare little kids now?? :ntsa: Is there a puking smiley?? I can't find one!

Anyone wanna put a stop of fizzy drinks/white flour/HFCS??? No...that would stop the cashflow!

[dressagemom]

I think those researchers would die a thousand deaths if they could see my children eating butter, heavy cream, homemade ice cream, and whole milk (all of the above raw, of course) almost every single day. Oh, and the eggs! Cooked in butter or coconut oil! We eat so many eggs it's ridiculous! Cholesterol in every bite! Did I mention the steaks, hamburgers, bacon, and chicken with the skin on? (we also eat lots of greens, veggies of all kinds, and limited sugar, so we probably wouldn't be able to participate in any of their studies... well, we wouldn't be allowed anyway, because we don't vax, and who knows how that would skew the results.)


I think it is all a crock of nasty brown stuff designed to generate $$$$$.

[Cobluegirl]

subbing :)

[3monkeys]

I come from a long long line of heart attacks. Almost everyone on my fathers side of the family has had one. My cousin even needed a transplant. Its something I have become very aware of. So I find this thread very very interesting. Mum, you should be reading this too and then kick Dads butt.

I would love to know what my cholestrol is. I use full fat unhomo (pastursied) milk, butter, etc too. I try very hard not to eat refined food and if I do my body tells me about it.

I couldnt imagine giving my children cholestrol drugs. I would rather teach them to eat fresh food and how to cook and look after themselves.

My goal in life is to not join the Culling Cardiac Club. I plan to die of something else :)

Oh and whats subbing?

Oh and dressagemum, I would so love your icecream recipe.

[3monkeys]

Sorry dressagemum, mispelled your name. My fingers just cant do mom, just not right, :ROFL:

[Cobluegirl]

subbing is subscribing..so we get emails when someone posts to the thread..but we put subbing because we have nothing to say yet..

[Serephina]

You don't need to post to a thread to subscribe - there's a button called "Thread tools" in the green bar at the top of each thread. Hit that button and it will give you the option to subscribe :)

[Cobluegirl]

LOL I looked for a sub button and missed it. Thanks.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

I think those researchers would die a thousand deaths if they could see my children eating butter, heavy cream, homemade ice cream, and whole milk (all of the above raw, of course) almost every single day. Oh, and the eggs! Cooked in butter or coconut oil! We eat so many eggs it's ridiculous! Cholesterol in every bite! Did I mention the steaks, hamburgers, bacon, and chicken with the skin on? (we also eat lots of greens, veggies of all kinds, and limited sugar, so we probably wouldn't be able to participate in any of their studies... :giggle: us too...
well, we wouldn't be allowed anyway, because we don't vax, and who knows how that would skew the results.):snort:

Yeah, I forgot about that :eek::D



I think it is all a crock of nasty brown stuff designed to generate $$$$$. :LMAO:

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

PS I agree. You made my day dressagemom.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

3 monkeys, it's interesting when you read up about magnesium, how lack of that is intrinsically linked with heart problems...

They talk about heart disease being in the genes aka hereditary, whereas IMO, it's lousy nutritional patterns which is the main inheritted epigenetic trigger.

[3monkeys]

I wonder if it is an inherited eipgenetic trigger then if the gene is switched on in childhood. My Aunty who is healthy and exercises well still joined the CCC (culling cardiac club) and her son who was very fit had the transplant. And my grandfather had a fatal heart attack when my father was 15 so probably mid to late 50s (Dads the youngest). I have no idea what his upbringing was like. And if it is an epigenetic trigger from childhood then I am screwed too (sorry Mum). I might read up on magnesium though. If I do join the CCC I hope its just a little one and when I am in my 70s. That will still be bucking the trend.

I guess once the gene is expressed is cant become unexpressed so when the switch is flicked its all go. But I am sure lifestyle choices can make a difference to how that gene expresses itself (as in timeline)

[MinorityView]

My grandfather died of a heart attack in his 50s, my father in his early 40s and my youngest brother has had two or three heart attacks and a bypass operation. One my aunts on that side of the family had some heart troubles, but recently died age 91, of old age.

Anyway, when my brother had the bypass operation the doctor told his wife that he had small arteries, much smaller than normal. Not that they were all necessarily blocked by goop, but that it wouldn't take much.

Thought that was interesting.

[dressagemom]

You guys are cracking me up!! MT, glad I could bring a smile to your face!

I really think that it is all designed to put the fear of (not God, because fear isn't of Him) death? disease? discomfort? I don't know. Anyway, to make people fearful and not trust their own judgement, so that they will do whatever the dr. tells them. And when you think outside of their paradigm, you cause all sorts of problems for their system. I, too, think that many times the culprit is actually the learned behaviour, not the actual genes, that a person acquires early in life that cause the problems (obviously not true in every.single.case, but in many of them).

3monkeys, nearly every single male on my DH's father's side (paternal grandfather, paternal uncles, great-uncles, etc.) in about the last 3 generations has had major heart issues due (of course!) to (drumroll) CHOLESTEROL!! But nevermind that there hasn't been any well-done, unbiased study conducted to show that dietary cholesterol is the culprit. In fact, quite the opposite has been shown: cholesterol has a protective effect on heart health, for reasons unknown to the medical community. (Perhaps because it keeps cells supple and strong, able to do their jobs properly? Doesn't allow them to become brittle and easily succumbed to stress?) IMO, and I am not a dr. of any kind, it is the refined sugars, grains, vegetable oils, and sedentary lifestyle that afflicts us with these heart problems, not the fat and cholesterol that happen to accompany our food.

BTW, 3monkeys, my mom (MUM!) is English, so I am not the slightest bit bothered by your spelling of my name. It seems perfectly normal, right there with behaviour, favourite, and neighbourhood.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

I guess once the gene is expressed is cant become unexpressed so when the switch is flicked its all go. But I am sure lifestyle choices can make a difference to how that gene expresses itself (as in timeline)

I think it's proven that methylation of genes, and reversing epigenetic damage can be done. Which is why so many vaccine damaged children have been "retrieved". Of the ones I know though, it doesn't take much to start that switch flickering though... like passing through a spray drift. It would appear that much of the issues labelled "autism" are a genetic weakness with regard to glutathione and detoxification pathways.

Sure, you can clean it up, but you have to keep it clean thereafter. it's a daily process.

I'd say the same would apply to heart issues. It's a daily process.

[TanyaL]

http://www.circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/92/9/2365

This is a discussion of low cholesterol (I've seen various cut-offs for the definition of low, sometimes 160, sometimes 180), with references to the studies they discuss.

There are studies that show increased likelihood of mood disorders, mostly anxiety and depression, in people with low cholesterol, and studies that show higher overall death rates, some cancers and a noticeable increase in death by suicide and homicide (apparently we're a lot of fun to live with). Some of the studies suggest more that _falling_ cholesterol is the bigger problem, rather than low but stable for years.

And vitamin D is created by sunshine hitting a chemical in our bodies that is a precursor to cholesterol, so for me, despite living in Texas (sunny climate) and being very fair-skinned, my low cholesterol is probably linked to low vitamin D in the kids (and likely in myself, haven't tested myself yet).

FWIW, I haven't found anything really reliable on how to raise very low cholesterol. For me it seems related to liver health and adrenal fatigue, and I'm guessing fixing those (or whatever health issues someone has) would lead to the body being able to self-regulate cholesterol in healthy range.

No ideas on the upper end of the healthy spectrum, that's not a problem for any of us.

[Cobluegirl]

Tanya have you looked into Mary Enig's work? She has written about coconut oil and cholesterol...

[TanyaL]

Tanya have you looked into Mary Enig's work? She has written about coconut oil and cholesterol...

I _thought_ I had, I don't remember a link between coconut oil and higher cholesterol. Anything in particular I should read? Though to be fair, for quite a while before I did my bloodwork I was eating a _ton_ of fat, had serious, serious fat cravings, and coconut oil was a reasonable proportion of that.

[Cobluegirl]

hmm.... It is supposed to lower cholesterol... I haven't read her stuff in awhile..was just remembering that. So nothing in particular...

[TanyaL]

hmm.... It is supposed to lower cholesterol... I haven't read her stuff in awhile..was just remembering that. So nothing in particular...

But that's my problem, last year when I had my cholesterol checked, it was 138. If there were a healthy way to raise it, say, 50 points, I'd be there!

[Cobluegirl]

gotcha.... sorry..my brain isn't thinking straight.

got me thinking maybe some people just aren't supposed to have the "normal" level that is "prescribed".

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

I wouldn't worry Tanya. Read "The China Study" and then decide. After all, if your body needed more cholesterol, it would make it. Perhaps for you, that level is right.

[TanyaL]

gotcha.... sorry..my brain isn't thinking straight.

got me thinking maybe some people just aren't supposed to have the "normal" level that is "prescribed".


I wouldn't worry Tanya. Read "The China Study" and then decide. After all, if your body needed more cholesterol, it would make it. Perhaps for you, that level is right.

Nah, my health's really messed up. Or rather, lately it's on the mend, just not there yet.

It's not really a worry, but I think, for me, it's an indicator of things amiss, and my liver not functioning properly is the likeliest issue I see--not the failing-liver-function bloodwork type of thing, but I detoxify heavy metals poorly, and everything finally caught up with me a few years ago.

For people like me who (used to) eat a fairly typical diet, I think low cholesterol should prompt some thought. Maybe everything is fine, and that's how their bodies work, but for me it seems to be part of a pattern. And given how important cholesterol is for little kids' brains, well, I think mine were short-changed.

[gilima]

my cholestoral is always higher when Iam nursing and/or pregnant.

my mil has had high cholestoral since I have known her( about 24 years)
over the years she has refused all the medicines offered to her for this .....she was told years ago she was a walking time bomb, well she is 83 and besides other health issues is still pretty active for her age!

as for the kids...I don't let them be routinely checked for cholestoral.
when they go in for a physical, the nurse usually asks if anyone in the family has or has a history of high cholestoral, and I always say, not that I know of ...end of story:giggle:

I never really worried about cholestoral....more about arrythmias, missed beats etc; which tend to be "common " in my family and it is probably from some "common " mineral deficiency...

makes me sick thinking of the poor kids on medicine........what about "brain food" and coating for the myelin sheeth etc;

[TanyaL]

I never really worried about cholestoral....more about arrythmias, missed beats etc; which tend to be "common " in my family and it is probably from some "common " mineral deficiency...



Consider magnesium? I used to have an irregular heartbeat, sometimes beats too close together, sometimes longer pauses, and it was several years ago that I started supping magnesium, but I think that's what did it, and it's gone now. Magnesium does a lot for proper contraction of muscles--calcium too, but I get the impression mag is more of a problem for most people.

[Ceres]

Not sure if anyone has posted this article yet, but I thought it was interesting.
The cholesterol myth. (http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/cholesterol_myth_1.html)

Because of the propaganda, you can be forgiven for thinking that cholesterol is a harmful alien substance that should be avoided at all costs. In fact, nothing could be further from the truth. Cholesterol is an essential component in the body. It is found in all the cells of the body, particularly in the brain and nerve cells. Body cells are continually dying and new ones being made. Cholesterol is a major building block from which cell walls are made. Cholesterol is also used to make a number of other important substances: hormones (including the sex hormones), bile acids and, in conjunction with sunlight on the skin, vitamin D 3 . The body uses large quantities of cholesterol every day and the substance is so important that, with the exception of brain cells, every body cell has the ability to make it.

[3monkeys]

well Dads got a bad heart again so I had my bloods done.

Everything is spot on BUT

According to the Heart Foundation, an ideal profile is: (mine is in red)



Total cholesterol less than 4 mmol/L 5.9
LDL cholesterol less than 2.0 mmol/L 4.0 (thats HUGE)
HDL cholesterol greater than 1 mmol/L 1.35
Total cholesterol/HDL ratio less than 4.5 4.4 (but my book from the nurses says it should be less than 4.0)
Triglycerides less than 1.7 mmol/L 1.2

So where to from here? Well, I have changed my diet. Thrown out the butter. Replaced with hummus.
Thrown out the full fat milk. Replaced with trim milk (I KNOW..........)
Thrown out the colby cheese. Replaced with Edam, cottage cheese and Feta, oh and parmesan
No sugar
No alcohol
I dont really drink fizzy drinks or eat junky food very often at all anyway so dont need to worry about that. Its portion size and less fat. Good old saturated fat...........

Up'ed the exercise. starting the couch to 5k running programme tomorrow.

I am only 33, and I am overweight (actually I am obese according to BMI, I am size 14-16 so dont feel obese, overwieght for sure though).

I also might look at a magnesium supplement, or will take my minerals more than once a month or so :)

So hard trying to fight the genetics. Thanks Dad.

[magical1]

1.Keep away from all soy and canola oils. Keep the butter.

2.Remember that the heart foundation levels are slowly coming down so they can get more people freaked out and on statins.

3.Take CoEnzymeQ10 and fish oils

4. Chill out... stress makes you fat and sick.

5. Keep off the sugar as you have been.

6. Don't take too much notice of numbers,apparently your readings can change from season to season.

7. Genetics to me are just bad habits passed down from generation to generation... don't blame your Dad.

8. Buy yourself a good book about cholesterol that gives you the facts on how the drug industry has perpetuted this myth that cholesterol is a bad thing. It is needed for every function in the body. If you don't consume it your body will make it anyway. It's just there to help tidy up and heal any inflammation and it is a much better indicator of this than anything.

9. People with the highest cholesterol live longest. it's just when it gets sticky that you get issues.

10. Get a good cayenne pepper tincture (Dr Schulze makes a good one) or you can make some yourself.

[3monkeys]

Thanks Magical1

I totally see where you are coming from.

I dont use soy or canola (canola..... ewwwwww)

I think exercise is the biggest thing for me.

I got up at 6.20 this morning and did day 1 of the couch to 5k.......... and now I am going to take my kids for a walk :)

Its definietly time to read and learn though, that for sure.

[TanyaL]

Instead of seeing your family health history as bad, can you turn it around to see it as clues? Clues to what you, in particular, are prone to? Not stuff you've got now, but if you can find the people in your family that your health seems similar to, well, it's been helpful for me. It's helped me figure out different nutrients DH and I seem to need in different amounts, and I'm thinking we have different tolerances for more problematic foods like gluten-containing grains.

There's a blog I enjoy reading, it's well-cited and discusses cholesterol in the context of overall health.

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/

In terms of cholesterol profile and helping DH's liver be happy, we're working on transitioning to grain-free, basically aiming for paleo-ish. We're still transitioning into it, so it's way too early for me to be able to see if this will be helpful for him. His overall cholesterol isn't high (it was actually very low the last time he was tested), but his ratios aren't good, which is funny given that my ratios are great and we eat the same diet, clearly he needs different things than I.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

there's nothing wrong with your cholesterols IMO... Few more avocados, magnesium and a bit longer on juicing and the LDL will drop a bit.

Before the Inuits got stuck into carbs and sugar their cholesterol was much higher than white mans, but they never got sick, strokes, heart attacks, nothing. Now they eat white man's junk, have lower cholesterols and die like lemmings.

[Seaweed]

Well bear in mind I've never had my chlorestrol done but I do run at least 5k a day. I have very low blood pressure as well & am a size 10. Altho' I saw somewhere they have now done a study which shows if your thighs are less than 60cm ( 23.something inches ) you are more likely to get heart disease so I am done for :eek:

I would knock off all grains, sugar, any kind of vege oil bar some extra virgin olive oil. :giggle:I do say this to everyone as I am so impressed with how good I feel eating like this & I notice how atrocious I feel if I stuff up & eat one of those things. I can pm you a place to get boxes of organic avocados if you want too. I never can eat them myself for some reason, which is bizarre as I used to eat heaps when I lived up north. I eat whole fish, shell fish & fish roe lots as a pose to taking fish oil capsules. We eat lots of veges & fruits. Whole raw milk, cream in the coffee, that sort of thing. Not many eggs right now as the chooks aren't laying much. I cook absolutely everything in butter, lard or tallow so the heart foundation would probably faint if it came to suss out my house. Off the top of my head I am sure garlic is supposed to be good for chlorestrol (sp!?) & also coconut oil could be useful.

I think if you stick to whole foods. But whole in the sense of paleolithic not lentil curry or whole cold pressed sunflower oil mayonaise type "whole". I truly think we need to exercise hard out myself. But not so hard out you can't do it the next day & the next. It needs to be challenging but maintainable if that makes sense. Also get out of the whole having sugar is a treat. We go buy a cooked crayfish from the fish shop & go sit by the wharf & eat it with lemon juice for our treat. I try very hard to get some rituals going around non-junk/sugarified foods for the kids as problem prevention is a very good thing! We do eat honey as our sweet treat.

From memory too I am sure they did some study way back in the 1930s somewhere like new york on office workers with a healthy diet & dock workers who ate lots of greasy high fat food & found the dock workers had better chlorestrol. The conclusion was it was the exercise. There is also that ape study they did which found the ones in better social positions, regardless of diet & also if positions were swapped had better chlorestrol.

Finally you do know the dealio with homogonised milk don't you? The fat globules are so small they do straight into the blood stream. Anecdotal but I know of a woman who had shocking chlorestrol. I think both her & her husband had even. Got themselves a jersey house cow. Switched to the raw full fat jersey milk & their chlorestrol came down. So no trim milk around here ever. We would be melting butter into it before we could drink it!

[3monkeys]

Thankes everyone.

Yeah I know the deal re homog milk which is why I dont like drinking it. I am trying to cut down my milk consumption in general. I drink way too much :) Love the stuff.

I have been reading the "mainstream" sort of stuff and I think they offer so many alternatives that involved heavily processed food etc and I am so not going down that road.

I think your right though seaweed. Exercise is def the key. I think when I get my weight down and get fitter I wont care so much IYKWIM. But at the moment my weight is a risk factor. All in good time :)

I apprecaite everyones feedback though, food for thought. Definitetly a good thing.

[Seaweed]

I think sun latte is the only non homogonised trim milk. You may also be able to get some organic trim non homogonised milk as well. Dairy is my main vice too. I still think I should be properly paleo myself.

With the exercise. Just do it. I have a friend who reckons the brain is the weakest muscle & he is not far wrong.

[3monkeys]

I wonder if the shop can get sun latte milk in for me.........

Your so right about the brain. Is the brain a muscle? Its not is it. Sorry, random thought for the day.

[Seaweed]

Nah the brain isn't a muscle :giggle:I would not worry with the sunlatte. Either ditch the milk completely or bump up the exercise. I'll take you for a run up & down Mt Cargill next time you come up. 5ks will be easy on the flat after that! Actually I only run the flat bits on the way up. The track is so steep, I think it is quicker walking as you can keep going. Instead of having to stop & lay down every now & then to recover from running.

[betach]

In my particular situation, it is difficult for me to get the good type of beef and butter, milk etc.
should i still use these products, but in a bit lesser quantities, or should i just stay away..

milk i can get from a farm myself, before pasturization, (45 minutes to farm each way, but we've done it, gotten large quantity of milk and frozen the milk). butter...?? chicken and beef much harder to get without antibiotics and hormones..

thanks for any advice.