Momtezuma Tuatara
06-02-09, 06:56 AM
MMR and Me (http://www.jenibarnett.com/2009/02/mmr_and_me.php)
the medical profession has dug in relentlessly I see.
My contribution, but because I'm not a regular contributor, may not go up:
Tom; as someone who has an immunodeficiency and whose child does as well, I've have relentless studied what you so glibly call "scientific consensus", which is a whole different gambit from scientific "fact". So much of what is touted as fact in many areas of medicine, is nothing more than supposition and opinion.
Anyone who wants these lovely, safe and effective vaccines, which will protect their child, can have them, right? According to you, that's not going to affect them. But don't feel sorry for those of us who have immunodeficiencies, please, as if we are some emotional blackmail toy for you to throw around!
Through my own immunodeficiency, (and having been given vaccines myself, and fortunately lived to rue the day) I have learned that the scientific community does NOT know everything. I chose NOT to vaccinate my children, even though we were smacked around the ears by nurses, doctors and paediatricians who think that their believes have precedence over my “irresponsible” choices.
It’s written in enough textbooks that you should be aware of it,that many, if not most immunodeficient people, who have a well functioning CMI and a working capable spleen, can happily survive infections, as we, as a family, have witnessed over the last 30 years.
Technically speaking, I should receive immunoglobulin every month to maintain the best of health. I never have and never will. And neither did, or does, my younger son. Funnily enough, we have got through all the childhood diseases, except in our case, measles, rubella, and whooping cough were caught from appropriately vaccinated children. Now that's something you rarely hear about is it? It's always the unvaccinated who are portrayed as the dirty and unwashed.
My choices may, one day, come back to bite me on the backside, but so be it. By the same token, I could equally be run over by a drunk driver, or more likely, seriously injured or killed by some tired doctor through preventable medical error; or perhaps a needless nosocomial infection because alcohol swabs are used instead of soap and water. Preventable problems and errors of judgement by doctors, maim and kills more people every year throughout the western world, than infectious diseases did just before vaccines came out. Check it out. I have what data there is, so know that statement to be true. Tell me Tom. How much does Preventable Medical Error cost the UK taxpayer every year?
Parents, EVEN the immunosuppressed, have the right to chose their risks. To me, feeding my children a superb, junk free diet, making sure they get enough sleep, are not overweight, and are in the fittest possible of health, is a much better option than sticking vaccines into them. Two of those vaccines were given to me, for my own "protection"; made my left hell, and still didn't protect me from later clinical infection. Another one (BCG) provoked a serious reaction which took a long time to sort out as well.
As Skrabanek so aptly put it in his book, Follies and Fallacies in Medicine:
"Since life itself is a universally fatal sexually transmitted disease, living it to the full demands a balance between reasonable and unreasonable risk. because this balance is a matter of judgement, dogmatism has little place."
When the medical profession cleans up it's own act, stops maiming and killing more people in hospitals than lunatic drivers do; gets behind breastfeeding in a meaningful way instead of platitudes about formula being an acceptable option; starts self-regulating the continuing abusive over prescription of antibiotics; and actually admits that there are factors in life that are much much more important than vaccines ever will be, like... decent diet; when hospitals actually provide patients with food which is actually worth eating... then maybe, those of us who have real health fragilities will take a bit more notice. Right now, statements from the medical profession sound like farcical pontifications.
The sort of self-righteous dogmatic statements in posts above, plainly put up by medical doctors with self appointed halos, are pretty precious.
Finally, as someone with an immunodeficiency, who has also held the hands of many of her friends, who availed themselves of the generous offers of vaccines, and whose children are now seriously damaged as a result, there is NO WAY, as a parent of a immunodeficient child, that I would ever want the parent of a normal child "to take that risk for my child".
I'm well aware of the consequences to myself and my children. Parents of healthy children are not responsible for the crap genes I have passed on to my child. I don't wish them to risk their child, who might have other, unknown fragilities, for the sake of my children.
But I do expect that should the chips fall the wrong way for me, that should I chose to ask the medical profession to help me out, that they treat my child with care, and respect, and me as an intelligent human being.
However, the stridency being exhibited by the self appointed holier than thou, might indicate that I’d be better off staying under the kitchen table.
In the meantime, please stop using those of us who are immunosuppressed as pawns for your emotional blackmail.
the medical profession has dug in relentlessly I see.
My contribution, but because I'm not a regular contributor, may not go up:
Tom; as someone who has an immunodeficiency and whose child does as well, I've have relentless studied what you so glibly call "scientific consensus", which is a whole different gambit from scientific "fact". So much of what is touted as fact in many areas of medicine, is nothing more than supposition and opinion.
Anyone who wants these lovely, safe and effective vaccines, which will protect their child, can have them, right? According to you, that's not going to affect them. But don't feel sorry for those of us who have immunodeficiencies, please, as if we are some emotional blackmail toy for you to throw around!
Through my own immunodeficiency, (and having been given vaccines myself, and fortunately lived to rue the day) I have learned that the scientific community does NOT know everything. I chose NOT to vaccinate my children, even though we were smacked around the ears by nurses, doctors and paediatricians who think that their believes have precedence over my “irresponsible” choices.
It’s written in enough textbooks that you should be aware of it,that many, if not most immunodeficient people, who have a well functioning CMI and a working capable spleen, can happily survive infections, as we, as a family, have witnessed over the last 30 years.
Technically speaking, I should receive immunoglobulin every month to maintain the best of health. I never have and never will. And neither did, or does, my younger son. Funnily enough, we have got through all the childhood diseases, except in our case, measles, rubella, and whooping cough were caught from appropriately vaccinated children. Now that's something you rarely hear about is it? It's always the unvaccinated who are portrayed as the dirty and unwashed.
My choices may, one day, come back to bite me on the backside, but so be it. By the same token, I could equally be run over by a drunk driver, or more likely, seriously injured or killed by some tired doctor through preventable medical error; or perhaps a needless nosocomial infection because alcohol swabs are used instead of soap and water. Preventable problems and errors of judgement by doctors, maim and kills more people every year throughout the western world, than infectious diseases did just before vaccines came out. Check it out. I have what data there is, so know that statement to be true. Tell me Tom. How much does Preventable Medical Error cost the UK taxpayer every year?
Parents, EVEN the immunosuppressed, have the right to chose their risks. To me, feeding my children a superb, junk free diet, making sure they get enough sleep, are not overweight, and are in the fittest possible of health, is a much better option than sticking vaccines into them. Two of those vaccines were given to me, for my own "protection"; made my left hell, and still didn't protect me from later clinical infection. Another one (BCG) provoked a serious reaction which took a long time to sort out as well.
As Skrabanek so aptly put it in his book, Follies and Fallacies in Medicine:
"Since life itself is a universally fatal sexually transmitted disease, living it to the full demands a balance between reasonable and unreasonable risk. because this balance is a matter of judgement, dogmatism has little place."
When the medical profession cleans up it's own act, stops maiming and killing more people in hospitals than lunatic drivers do; gets behind breastfeeding in a meaningful way instead of platitudes about formula being an acceptable option; starts self-regulating the continuing abusive over prescription of antibiotics; and actually admits that there are factors in life that are much much more important than vaccines ever will be, like... decent diet; when hospitals actually provide patients with food which is actually worth eating... then maybe, those of us who have real health fragilities will take a bit more notice. Right now, statements from the medical profession sound like farcical pontifications.
The sort of self-righteous dogmatic statements in posts above, plainly put up by medical doctors with self appointed halos, are pretty precious.
Finally, as someone with an immunodeficiency, who has also held the hands of many of her friends, who availed themselves of the generous offers of vaccines, and whose children are now seriously damaged as a result, there is NO WAY, as a parent of a immunodeficient child, that I would ever want the parent of a normal child "to take that risk for my child".
I'm well aware of the consequences to myself and my children. Parents of healthy children are not responsible for the crap genes I have passed on to my child. I don't wish them to risk their child, who might have other, unknown fragilities, for the sake of my children.
But I do expect that should the chips fall the wrong way for me, that should I chose to ask the medical profession to help me out, that they treat my child with care, and respect, and me as an intelligent human being.
However, the stridency being exhibited by the self appointed holier than thou, might indicate that I’d be better off staying under the kitchen table.
In the meantime, please stop using those of us who are immunosuppressed as pawns for your emotional blackmail.