E-coli bacteria

[dreamboat]

I wasnt sure where to post this question and in fact i am not even really sure of the question.
I will start with i breastfeed my 8 month old son and at about 5months old he contracted a bladder infection which the doctors said was e-coli bacteria.
Now i have been reading elsewhere on here an article about SID's and extra amounts of iron fed to a baby can cause botulism.
I took iron tablets whilst breastfeeding so is it possible he contracted Botulism and this led to the E-coli infection?

Is there any connection between the E-coli bacteria and Botulism in babies?

And also does anyone have any information on this E-coli bacteria my son had as i really do not know much about why he developed it and how to keep him from having it in future,i am worried it may be something i am doing wrong or perhaps not doing to prevent it.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

I've never heard about a connection between botulism and e-coli. I know a doctor who says that extra iron can cause bacterial infections in anyone, because iron is what many bacteria feed on. On the other hand, diphtheria can do nothing until the person is iron deficient, and when the person is iron deficient, then the bacteria can switch on the toxin making gene.

there is always a tricky balance going on in the body, and for that reason, I'm very wary of iron supplementation by tablet. I'd prefer to see dietary overhaul, than popping supplements, thinking that that will get a person out from under dietary omissions.

I'm presuming that they did a urine sample to check for e-coli?

E.coli of itself, is primarily in the gut, and isn't usually a huge issue, because all of us have small amounts of it in us at all times. Bottlefed babies though, have 1,000 times the amount as breastfed babies. The numbers in breastfed babies can increase during times of stress, fever, and supplementation. ONE bottle of formula rises the numbers of e-coli in the gut to the level of a formula fed baby, and it takes two weeks to return to normal.

It's when the numbers of e-coli bacteria that it becomes a problem. All e-coli of all "type" are potentially toxic, because the "envelope" of the bacteria is a lipopolysaccharide, which is intrinsically toxic.

Here is the chapter headings of a bacterial textbook. Put it in your favourites. it's not 100% accurate, but at least gives you key words, and concepts you can check out elsewhere. Scroll down to e.coli http://www.textbookofbacteriology.net/kt_toc.html

When e-coli colonies increase in numbers, they "divide" and multiply to do that. Every division results in an envelope "fragment" dropping off into the gut, which are taken up by phagocyte, which present gelatinous targets to the kupffer cells in the liver where, to use an unscientific term, they are chomped up, or "digested" or denatured, whichever way you want to think of it.

However, if the kupffer cells cannot cope, e.coli can spread into other areas of the body.

Many population groups can have e.coli bladder infection. the most common group in this country is quadraplegics, because often their bowel motions are slow which greatly favours multiplication of e.coli, therefore results in a heavier work load for the liver...

It is of interest to me, that friends who have been through the spinal unit, have been counselled about likely e.coli infections, and take 5,000 grams of vitamin C a day to keep e.coli infections at bay, because the medical staff there tell them to.

Such advice though isn't usually proferred to Jane Blog, or Ewen Mee.

In my experience, it's highly unusual for a breastfed baby who has never had antibiotics, and whose mother's diet includes a wide variety of fruit, vegetables and plenty of vitamin C foods, to ever have an e.coli clinical infection.

[dreamboat]

Thankyou for your reply that was very interesting i never knew all that.

I wish i knew how he developed it then as i breastfeed and i eat my vegetables and fruit and drink lots of water. I do however indulge in chocolate here and there and coffee i do not know if that has any relevance though.

Basically he was acting very fussy all of a sudden rarely sleeping and being quite cranky a lot where as before he was such a happy quiet baby then his temperatures began rising so i took him to the docs when i found him laying on the floor shaking and moaning and he didnt look very coherent.
The doctor found nothing wrong with him so took the urine sample i got that back 2 days later saying he had an infection and to give him the amoxil prescription he had given me but i did not wish to do this then within the hour of this call he took another bad turn so we went straight to the hospital. Those idiots told us nothing wrong that they could see and to give him panadol and sent us on our way so on the mon morning(the next day) i rushed him to my usual gp who is a fair drive away and she had the first doctor fax over the urine results. She said the infection he had couldnt be treated with amoxil so they were idiots and he was admitted to hospital immediately and put on an intravenas drip for 3 days till he picked up.
The pead told me the infection he had was e-coli.
He tried to tell me he could have kidney reflux and may need a dye put through the eye of his penis.
I fought this and said i would rathe rhim re tested in a few weeks and if infection is still present then okay but it just didnt sit right to do this test if it wasnt necessary.
The urine test came back negative so that was that and he has been healthy ever since.
But i was never aware of how he could have gotten it,i thought it was when feaces gets in to their urine perhaps. I had never dealt with or heard of this particular problem before.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Hopefully it won't happen again. However, there is another thought. Given the dickering around, you'd have to ask if the laboratory got it right.