HiB and contageous period

[passionatewriter]

hi. i have a few questions about HiB.

ill try to give all pertinent information.

ds3 is 3y3 months. we have all been sick on/off for the last month or so. last week i took him and baby to the family dr. to get cultures done. i just felt that we had something beyond the common flu. That was last Wed. I JUST got E (3 yo) culture back today. He was dx'd with HiB. He does not have meningitis, as far as I know. His symptoms were all last week. last fever was Friday night. Granted, those fevers were on the high side...103, 104...he woudl cycle through those for about 2 weeks.

So, my questions are this:

If you dont go the antibiotic route (i dont intend to..he's not lethargic, is nursing alot and actually has an appetite...no fever anymore)..then what else would you be doing?

Also, how would you determine he isnt contageous anymore?

tia

Rachel

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Is your baby totally breastfed?

[passionatewriter]

the kid in question (3 yo) is not exclusively bf..though at the moment, i woudl say 80% bf. his appetite is ok now though..he has asked for certain foods today.

our baby (5 month old) is EBF but does not have HiB.

both kids were also dx'd with moraxella, so 3 yo has been fighting both bacteria. no ear or sinus infections though and lungs are good.

MT, thanks for changing the title of this forum. i have been so confused all day IRT HiB and meningitis. lol!

[Spy]

By 'diagnosed' do you mean that they actually found this bacteria or two? This may not necessarily mean that the bacteria in question is what made them sick, as it is pretty much part of everyone's life at some point - we all have a number of 'pathogenic' organisms in our system at any given time, some can be tested for some don't even have developed tests and therefore can't be 'diagnosed', so we don't worry about them :). And it certainly sounds like your little one is coping very well with whatever it is. Do you take enough vitC?

[passionatewriter]

well last week he was cycling through the 103, 104 temps...he would have a fever for 12 hours or so, be good for about 18 hours and then another temp (those are estimates, i didnt track them). i became concerned and went to the dr. for cultures of both boys. i suspected whooping cough (we have all been coughing like seals).

i dont mean to sound casual..i have been spending all day researching HiB...but i seriously think 3 yo is good. he is less energetic than normal but fever is gone and none of the other symptoms.

but now those around us know he has HiB and im not sure when to take him back into our homeschooling groups, yk?

as far as "dx'd", those are the 2 bacteria that came up in last Wed's cultures.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

the kid in question (3 yo) is not exclusively bf..though at the moment, i woudl say 80% bf. his appetite is ok now though..he has asked for certain foods today.

our baby (5 month old) is EBF but does not have HiB. breastmilk protects against clinical Hib infection.


both kids were also dx'd with moraxella, so 3 yo has been fighting both bacteria. no ear or sinus infections though and lungs are good.If you can trust the diagnostic process, then to have two, would indicate that you all need to be eating a lot more probiotic foods, since it would appear that you have flora disbiosis...


MT, thanks for changing the title of this forum. i have been so confused all day IRT HiB and meningitis. lol!I didn't change the title of the forum. I shifted the thread from meningitis to Hib :D

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

as far as "dx'd", those are the 2 bacteria that came up in last Wed's cultures.

When our first son was born, both of us tested positive for diphtheroids. That didn't mean we had clinical diphtheria, because we didn't. Not long after that, they stopped routine testing for skin diphtheroids in this country, because most people had them, and it was a pointless waste of time and money.

I'm now waiting, for some young upstart medic with no historical nouse, to reintroduce skin diphtheroid testing in order to "prove" that we all need regular diphtheria boosters :alien:

:ride:

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

but now those around us know he has HiB and im not sure when to take him back into our homeschooling groups, yk?



If all the kids in them were tested, most of them might test positive in terms of having it in their throats.

However, IF either Hib or Mox cause clinical symptoms, to me that indicates flora dysbiosis... and many things can cause that, including stress. There are many medical abstracts of articles from Russia, where bacterial dysbiosis was treated with yoghurt, kefir etc. That was, until recently, when the antibiotic craze appears to have infiltrated there as well.

Sigh.

[Spy]

There are many medical abstracts of articles from Russia, where bacterial dysbiosis was treated with yoghurt, kefir etc. That was, until recently, when the antibiotic craze appears to have infiltrated there as well.

Sigh.

Oh, it has infiltrated there some good 50 years ago, they just never had a problem prescribing both abx and culture at the same time. :alien:

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

So how do they attribute which was the one that worked? (Many of the articles don't indicate that antibiotics were given at the same time. They state that probiotics can, for instance, get rid of URTIs as well....)

[passionatewriter]

breastmilk protects against clinical Hib infection.

If you can trust the diagnostic process, then to have two, would indicate that you all need to be eating a lot more probiotic foods, since it would appear that you have flora disbiosis...

I didn't change the title of the forum. I shifted the thread from meningitis to Hib :D

yeh, im not concerned about the 5 month old in this situation. the dr. office originally told me both kids had HiB and i was shocked. they were mistaken.

i dont know that i trust the diagnostic process...but something was causing my 3 yo to cycle through these fevers. no one else had those symptoms and they didnt seem to be going away so i became concerned. I am usually the last person to take my kids to the dr. but i wanted to know if they could tell what it was.

please understand that most ppl i know think that i am insane for not running to get the antbx RIGHT NOW. and i do worry....the 3 yo fell asleep alot earlier than usual tonight, so i believe that he is still fighting this off.

what i cant seem to answer (in my own head) though, is when is he not going to be contagious? others want to know. we belong to an unschooling group and most of them do not vax but i think most of them get really scared when a "vpd" (i detest that term) is going around.

so..when would you (general you) consider your kid OK to mingle with others again? Even a good friend of mine, who tends to shy away from western medicine most of the time, and who is a nurse...is asking me whether she should be concerned b/c she was at my house 2 weeks ago. :(

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

please understand that most ppl i know think that i am insane for not running to get the antbx RIGHT NOW. and i do worry....the 3 yo fell asleep alot earlier than usual tonight, so i believe that he is still fighting this off. Most likely

In this thread http://forums.beyondvaccination.com/showthread.php?t=520 sleepiness is a survival adaption, and crucial to getting the immune system up to speed.


what i cant seem to answer (in my own head) though, is when is he not going to be contagious?Even that depends on the child. that's not even the question really, because all of us symptomless people are carriers of all sorts of "meningitis pathogens" several times a year. We carry them in our throats and spread them to others all the time.

people would be shocked if they were swabbed every week, to see how many pathogenic bacteria we carry and spread to one another. But most of us don't get sick.

Funny how people worry about someone being "infectious" only when there was evidence they were sick in the first place, and yet they don't worry about carriage continuum, because they can't see a red flag waving over the top of every person. yet, every time you shake hands with someone, you swap bacteria with them.

See pdf attached.


others want to know. we belong to an unschooling group and most of them do not vax but i think most of them get really scared when a "vpd" (i detest that term) is going around. tell them that if they haven't got their head around what to do when their kids are sick, then they are totally irresponsible. If a person doesn't vaccinate, they have a duty to their child to read widely and know what to do when their children do get sick.

I would venture to suggest that these people do the non-vaxxer movement a disservice, and would be better advised to vaccinate, to save us the angst of having their ignorance rubbed in our faces some time in the future... :mad:


so..when would you (general you) consider your kid OK to mingle with others again? Even a good friend of mine, who tends to shy away from western medicine most of the time, and who is a nurse...is asking me whether she should be concerned b/c she was at my house 2 weeks ago. :(

If she is a nurse, so did she look it up online or in her nursing texts to see what the answer is. :LMAO: Some nurse!

If you believe this (http://www.immunisation.ie/en/Downloads/PDFFile_15182_en.pdf), (4.2.2) then



Healthy individuals can carry bacteria in their nose and throat without
symptoms.... Transmission occurs through respiratory droplets, or contact with respiratory secretions from an infected person. Individuals are infectious as long as the bacteria are present in the nose and pharynx.:rolleyes:

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

What would I do? With paranoid friends like that? ... i'd tell them that because I respect their right to be paranoid, I'd keep my own company for however long I felt like it :D . After all, I'd not like to be "accused" of making their unvaccinated children sick!!! :chair:

next option would be to find some better "friends"...

[Spy]

So how do they attribute which was the one that worked? (Many of the articles don't indicate that antibiotics were given at the same time. They state that probiotics can, for instance, get rid of URTIs as well....)
If they do antibiotics, it is them that killed the bacteria. The culture 'fixes' the consequences of antibiotics. In the articles you read, they obviously didn't use antibiotics, as this is the only way to attribute dying bacteria to whatever else they were using. It's just not the mainstream practice.



If a person doesn't vaccinate, they have a duty to their child to read widely and know what to do when their children do get sickAnd if a person DOES vaccinate, they get exempt from such a duty?

[passionatewriter]

thank you MT and Spy. I was trying to post here originally yesterday but forgot my password, etc. etc.

Unfortunately, I posted many other places and asked a few friends I got anything from "he has meningitis" to "watch him very carefully..this is very dangerous (with a look that conveyed the idea that im simply not using antibiotics just so i can say i dont use them).

Im nursing him more than usual...which is hard to do right now w/ teh baby also (I wish tandem nursing were easier for me, but its not). Im getting probitoics and CLO into him and made a great green soup last night that he actually ate alot of.

Its hard to keep a level head when others around you are so prone to the scare tactics. Thanks for providing a rationale discussion.

I think I know my kids. I knew he was fighting something and I wanted to have the right tools to be able to figure out what it was. My only option was the culture. I also feel at this point that he may not be 100%, but he is nowhere near being in a place where I would even consider antibitotics.

[Spy]

You're doing well! Unfortunately people you're talking to are just not informed on the subject - not that it is anything uncommon, happens even to medical professionals. You just need to know for the future that these people probably don't need to have all the intimate details of you family's health life, 'virus' would be a better story for them, considering that they are unable to enlighten you with anything you don't know yet yourself. :LMAO:This will protect your brain from indecent assaults in the future. :giggle:After all, when you're dealing with sick children last thing you need is scaremongering from misinformed mob.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

If a person doesn't vaccinate, they have a duty to their child to read widely and know what to do when their children do get sick

And if a person DOES vaccinate, they get exempt from such a duty?

No :giggle:but the reality is that because they assume their kids are now sanitised, and squeaky clean they will never get sick, relieving them from the "need" to know how to treat sick kids.

When our two children had whooping cough, the doctor commented to us how our two who were the only two out of 70+ NOT on antibiotics, were doing so well. When I asked him why he thought that was so, there was rather a long silence, and in a quiet voice, he said, "Well, for a start, you've got brains and use them. Most people who vaccinate, view their child's illness as my fault, and expect me to fix it."

I looked at him straight and said, "No Xxxxxx; the fact is that people who :baa: vaccinate :baa: don't "think". "

He looked at me, smiled and said, "No comment".

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Unfortunately, I posted many other places and asked a few friends I got anything from "he has meningitis" to "watch him very carefully..this is very dangerous (with a look that conveyed the idea that im simply not using antibiotics just so i can say i dont use them). Talking to 100 different people will result in 11 different types of "opinions". 10 of those opinions will be variations of the provaccine, prodrug, and then two "180 degree" variations will be from people who think.


Im nursing him more than usual...which is hard to do right now w/ teh baby also (I wish tandem nursing were easier for me, but its not). Im getting probitoics and CLO into him and made a great green soup last night that he actually ate alot of. If he ate a lot of it, that means his body is screaming out for the nutrients in that particular soup.


Its hard to keep a level head when others around you are so prone to the scare tactics.it's not, if you just stay away from paranoia.


Thanks for providing a rationale discussion.

I think I know my kids. I knew he was fighting something and I wanted to have the right tools to be able to figure out what it was. My only option was the culture. I also feel at this point that he may not be 100%, but he is nowhere near being in a place where I would even consider antibitotics.I have a study somewhere here, and when I can find it, I will scan it and put a page of it up. It was a study where they swabbed the noses and throats of kids with broken arms and stuff like that, looking for "germs". They found a whole raft of them. But none of those germs caused any subsequent disease.

Did you read that pdf I put there, on bacteria on people's hands???

:D

[passionatewriter]

Did you read that pdf I put there, on bacteria on people's hands???

:D

no..which forum? i stay away from anything antibacterial....so im sure our hands are pretty infested!

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

I put a comment about it in post number 12 above, and attached the pdf to the bottom of that post.

[cartersmom]

I put a comment about it in post number 12 above, and attached the pdf to the bottom of that post.


That was a great PDF. It seems as though in general women had more species of bacteria on their hands than men...wonder why??

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

given that so many of those bacteria are "pathogenic" isn't it a wonder we are alive?

[cartersmom]

given that so many of those bacteria are "pathogenic" isn't it a wonder we are alive?

Its a freakin miracle ;)

[passionatewriter]

thought i would update. i took both kids back to the dr. office for cultures last Friday (3 yo hadnt had a fever for a week at that point, so i was fairly confident whatever caused his illness was over).

so good news is that there was NO HiB in his culture of last Friday, which I am guessing means he is not a carrier but did have HiB disease.

i am so glad this is resolved. it makes me so much more confident in my resolve. until this episode, it was all theory to me bc my resolve had never been tested. our decision to stay away from vaccinations, and antibiotics, when he our son's immune system was working just fine. Of course we were ridiculed (much by the online community that i was stupid enough to ask advice)....but whatever.

i didn't expect to be dealing with a "vpd" at such a young age (3) but now that we have, its a huge eye opener (its one thing to read about other children and see your own go through something).

this was about as bad as getting the flu. nothing more.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Each time you deal with something, you will learn better skills in regard to treating, and hopefully, preventing.

Key in now, on a broad range of probiotic foods, a really good organic diet (preferably with some stuff you grow yourself) and minimal sugar and refined carbs. When you pass second hand book shops, go inside, and hunt down old herbal and other books. You'd be amazed what you will pick up from them.

It's the learning journey of parenting.

[passionatewriter]

i do need to look at more probiotic foods. we all take probiotics but of course thats not as good as getting them directly from teh foods. our diet is mostly organic but not 100%..im working on a garden this year (in New England, so short growing season) and i hope to learn to can this year.

one HUGE eye opener for me right now..im listening to the book Animal, Vegetable Miracle....she is so inspiring. the audio book is 16 CD's (1 hour each) and im about 1/2 way through. I am definitely on the road toward Traditional Foods...just not entirely there yet.

sugars are limited here. we eat organic raw sugar but very little of that (i have yet to eliminate it from my diet).

all and all i think we are doing great...but there is always room for improvement. according to many, my kid should have been in the ER with meningitis. i am happy that he was nowhere close to that.

thanks again for this board. i intend to stay more active now that i have found a way back. :) there is simply NO place else online to get the kind of support and information i have found here.