Antibiotics and contagious period

[Nirvana]

Can antibiotics help reduce the contagious period if one has WC? I know it can worsen it if one does have WC but I want to know if it helps to reduce transmission. Thanks

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

They say, that seven days of antibiotics completely eliminates transmission.

Frankly, I don't believe it. I've not seen studies done, using definitive PCR tests, proving it.

[Nirvana]

A lady on FB who is going on and on about baby Dana's death says when her baby was coughing, the pedi put her on abx to prevent the spread of WC although the swab came back negative. She says she is happy that the pedi started abx because though she knows abx do nothing for pertussis, at least she is preventing the spread unlike unvaxed persons!

NAK

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

But if the test came back negative for pertussis, how does she know it's pertussis? There are other things, like chlamydia, bronchoseptica and adenoviruses that can cause clinical symptoms similar to whooping cough, though the time frame is different.

Why would spread worry a person who believes that vaccination protects the recipient? if the unvaccinated spread the bacteria, then according to her logic, only the unvaccinated can get it.

[Nirvana]

She says that because babies are too young to be vaccinated, it is upon the rest of the population to get booster shots and vaccinate their children as per schedule to prevent the spread of pertussis. She says that if it would have been pertussis, then at least she would be happy to know that her baby did not spread it to others. Says she would be upset with the pedi if he had not put her baby on abx!

Says why did the Australian health ministry or NSW something not disclose to the parents of Dana that their area was the least vaccinated for pertussis....blah blah blah.

[Nirvana]

This is what I found on FB about baby Dana

AN OPEN LETTER FROM TONI AND DAVID MCCAFFERY

We write this letter broken hearted and feel like we failed our daughter.

Before 9 March 2009, we were happy and complete following the birth of our third child Dana. Today, we are shattered at the preventable death of our beautiful girl.

We moved to the Northern Rivers to bring our family up in this pristine environment. However, we did not realise this was a hotbed for contagious and potentially deadly viruses.

Our sweet Dana is the innocent victim of dangerously low levels of awareness and even lower vaccination rates. Instead of her photo winning baby competitions, she is the tragic face of a Whooping Cough (Pertussis) epidemic and sparked a national vaccination debate.

Our two other children are immunised. Dana never got the chance.

We did everything by the book while pregnant: checked Rubella immunity, took Folic Acid, avoided high-risk foods, and monitored glucose. Dana was born a perfectly healthy 7 pounds, 4 ounces. And her beauty took our breath away.

We breastfed, sterilised and followed SID guidelines. But, we were oblivious to Whooping Cough and the rate of notifications on the NSW North Coast. Yes, we saw some posters, but it beggars belief that not one health professional warned us about the risks, scale of the epidemic or precautions to take – not the GP, the obstetrician, the hospital midwives while the epidemic raged in the children’s ward, or the early childhood nurse.

What started as a blocked nose escalated into our worst nightmare. From 11 days old, Dana became more unsettled at night and started to cough from three weeks of age. After she tested positive for Pertussis, we went straight to the hospital.

However, we were not alarmed because we thought antibiotics could treat it. Wrong. The antibiotics only stop you infecting others. There is no treatment to cure Whooping Cough and we had to watch in horror as the Pertussis took its course.

First, our tiny daughter coughed uncontrollably until she turned blue and required oxygen to regain her breath. She was fed through a nasal-gastro tube, was given fluid via a drip and placed in an oxygen headbox. The paediatrician told us that when Dana could recover without oxygen we could go home, but she would continue having coughing attacks for up to 100 days and possible respiratory complications. However, this is for the ‘lucky ones’.

Dana developed Pneumonia on the third day. She was placed on a ventilator and airlifted to Brisbane’s Mater Children’s Paediatric Intensive Care Unit. We still did not panic, on the advice she would be there for a week until she was strong enough to breathe on her own.

On the fifth day, the Pertussis took an unexpected and deadly turn. In what seemed an instant, Dana had an aggressive reaction to the toxin, which attacked her immune system and heart. The Pertussis blocked every drug or treatment that the team of specialists could throw at it. We were powerless to save her. After nearly 10 hours of desperate blood transfusions, Dana’s beautiful heart stopped beating and she let out her last sweet breath.

The only thing that could have saved Dana was preventing her catching Pertussis.

We wrongly assumed our family was protected because we were all vaccinated at birth. However, we did not know that:

- The Northern Rivers region has one of the nation’s lowest childhood vaccination rates
- The vaccination wanes after 10-12 years, so almost 90% of adults are no longer immunised
- Vaccination is only effective if the majority of the community does it.

This means that if you are immunised, you can still contract Pertussis from the high number of people that don’t vaccinate or are no longer immune. Many people carrying Pertussis don’t realise it – they may have an irritating cough or no symptoms at all.

Newborns are helpless and it takes just one breath to infect them.

Dana contracted Pertussis in the first weeks of her life. No one else in our family has tested positive for Pertussis or had a cough. We have tortured ourselves with questions: Was it in the hospital? Was it from our son’s school or daughter’s childcare centre? Was it at the GPs? Was it at a birthday party? Or was it a loving relative or friend who doesn’t know they have the bacteria?

It doesn’t matter… we are all innocent victims in this.

We are devastated that Dana’s death is the catalyst for change and dearly wish we had the chance to wrap her in cotton wool as families across Australia are doing now.

Lismore Base Hospital has been admitting up to two children per week for Pertussis and Dana was the third newborn airlifted from this region to Brisbane in as many weeks. But, no one in our community knew.

The day after Dana died; NSW Health issued alerts and provided free boosters for new parents and grandparents. The Minister for Health then advised that public health officers were writing to all new parents to advise them of the free boosters and we also understand information packs have been produced. This is too little too late for us.

NSW Health should have proactively alerted the community of outbreaks and precautions to take before it became an epidemic. This requires more than just posters and media releases. We need advertising campaigns supported by vigilant screening, consistent advice from frontline health workers and free boosters for all adults.

However, the efforts of a few are futile. Everyone in our community must work together to increase vaccination rates to protect our most vulnerable.

Please learn from our past. Vaccination was introduced because there is no medicine to stop these bacteria that killed and maimed thousands of children. Now, these third-world diseases are on the rise again. In NSW it is Whooping Cough. In Queensland it is Measles.

Do you want to live in a country where we are too scared to have friends or family visit our babies or we won’t leave our homes?

For anyone that dismisses the facts, please walk in our shoes. We cry ourselves to sleep with memories of our daughter coughing until she couldn’t breathe, attached to a ventilator, going into cardiac arrest and holding her bruised and swollen body after her heart stopped.

We were inconsolable as we left our baby in the hospital morgue and drove home from Brisbane with an empty baby capsule. We weep as we explain to our children that their baby sister isn’t coming home and remember her trusting eyes pleading for help. Our hearts broke when our six-year old son helped carry her tiny pink coffin out of the church. And when our children ask why Dana died, we falter, because it was completely preventable.

We are comforted by the overwhelming support, prayers and acts of kindness we have received from across Australia and around the world.

People ask how they can help ease our pain. We simply ask that:
- All parents vaccinate their children
- All adults get a booster, which the government should make free for everyone
- If you have a cough, get tested for Pertussis to prevent the spread of the bacteria
- All levels of government and health workers improve processes to warn the community of outbreaks of any virus or disease and precautions to take.

We owe it to Dana.

Yours in Community
Toni and David McCaffery

I feel sorry for this family but I still don't believe the argument of vaccinating everyone for pertussis. Also this is the one disease which actually bothers me because clearly it can bring tragic news to a family.

[cartersmom]

I was under the impression that the vaccine did NOT prevent transmission??

[Dozytoes]

I know there has been much speculation about Dana McCaffrey's death, but something about the information that is available just doesn't seem right. I've re-read the post a couple of times, and it occurs to me that I have also seen a report somewhere that says her body had swelled massively before she died. What would do that? Surely not pertussis? And why did she need blood transfusions? Why the bruising? Does anyone know what medications she was given? Plainly antibiotics, probably/possibly steroids...there just seems so much that doesn't quite add up.

No-one would argue that this little baby's death was tragic, but I wonder if things are quite as straightforward as they appear. Hilary's knowledge on pertussis seems immense and I am interested to find out what she thinks about this.

[Nirvana]

Whatever posts MT and Mamakay have posted, clearly show that pertussis vax does not prevent transmission. I also read that pertussis shows up more in vaccinated individuals than unvaxed ones.

This PDF talks about mumps outbreak. Go to page 2 where I found this interesting comment that said something like if a vaccinated population is exposed to a disease, most cases of the disease would be found in the vaccinated! :eyeroll:

http://www.ndhan.gov/data/health/CDC%20Update%2000244%20-%20Corrected...%20Multi-state%20Mumps%20Outbreak.pdf

[Nirvana]

There is another post by Baby Dana's mother. I think it is becoming clear why this little baby die. The antibiotics of course which Hilary keeps on repeating and repeating is the bane when it comes to antibiotics. But I guess this family deserves a clear answer and they feel they have already got one.


I am trying to maintain my composure and respect for others, but I cannot fathom why people continue to be dismissive and disrespectful to our daughter (other blogs, emails and posts).

I now understand why people keep saying we are brave - we are open season.

Firstly, no-one is forcing anything on anyone. And I wish our daughter had not made front-page news and we were coming out of hospital now.

We told Dana's story to raise awareness of how dangerous and contagious Pertussis is and how important vaccination and boosters are. Thankfully many mothers up here have taken precautions since and the newborns have stopped flowing into Lismore Base Hospital. That is a good thing!!

I was hesitant to put out too many facts about Dana's death - because it is private. But, I am so tired of people twisting her death for their own cause. Please do not twist these facts.

Firstly, she died from the Pertussis bacteria and certainly not a weak immune system, any vaccines or G6PD.

Pertussis causes uncontrollable coughing, copious amounts of mucous and apnoea. Newborns airways are so small, which is why they are very vulnerable, can choke, stop breathing and die. They can't draw breath. But the toxin can also attack other organs. There is no treatment, only oxygen etc...to nurse them through it - without which, if sick enough yes they can die. Please refer to this site for what Pertussis is and can do.. http://www.pkids.org/dis_pert_stsop.php (http://www.pkids.org/dis_pert_stsop.php)

The FACTS
Dana first exhibited a blocked and sometimes runny nose at 11 days old. She was perfectly fine during the day, but became unsettled at night. I went to the GP. Note: my other two children had colds at the time.

At three weeks old she got a very mild cough and started gagging a bit at night, with a low-grade fever. Once again, during the day was fine. I went to a doctor four times over three days to keep monitoring her. They thought it was Bronchialitis and tested for that and Pertussis, which was the first time it was mentioned.

Little coughs...runny nose...a bit unsettled...but not very sick.

On the afternoon of the third day, the GP rang and said the test was positive for Pertussis. We were all suprised. Dana was still fine, but started to produce mucous in her mouth. We drove straight to the hospital and she was fine. All our family went on antibiotics and two other kids tested. But, none of us had Pertussis.

10 minutes after we arrived she had her first coughing spasm. This was nothing like the baby you saw on Sunday Night. Dana did not draw breath, went blue and passed out. We put oxygen on her and she came to. This happened all night - and we would SUCTION OUT the mucous. Started Erythromycin to stop her being infectious. Heart rate, oxygen levels, reps of breathing all good.

Day 2 in hospital
Dana put into a headbox for 100% oxygen, placed on a drip, fed through nasal-gastro tube. X-ray showed some 'mist' on one lung so also given Augmentin. Heart rate, oxygen levels, reps of breathing all good. She had a fantastic night that night, recovering from coughs on her own, albeit in the headbox. She was strong.

Day 3 in hospital
Really good day and nurses told me I'd probably be going home. Still in headbox and all stats good. Feeds reduced so this did not irritate her throat.

Day 4/5 in hospital
Pneumonia confirmed. Heart rate a bit high - but stats good. She was put on a ventilator and airlifted to Brisbane Mater Children's Hospital Paediatric Intensive Care unit - like the two babies before her and the baby after her. When babies get to this stage they are ventilated to help them rest and breathe while the Pertussis takes its course. She was on heavier antibiotics for pnemounia, and heart medication as her heart rate was up (this was the Pertussis not the anasthetic). The Intensive care team monitored the gases in her blood to avoid septicemia and regularly suctioned out her lungs and nose. I went to bed with the knowledge I would be there for at least a week and a half, but she was stable.

Day 6
Walked in 7.30am and told she had a good night, but white blood cells way up. At this stage they were considering options. But, still fine. About an hour later while I was in the room I saw her blood pressure plummet. I was alone, so got my sister-in-law to rush to hospital and told Dave to drive up. They told me she had 50% chance of survival - that there was no treatment to stop the toxin. They were in consultation with experts all over the world. I was given two options: fly to Melbourne for heart/lung bypass machine (may not survive flight and may not EVER get off the machine) or double-blood transfusion - which they had googled from a case in Chile. We went the second.

She was strong and amazed the doctors and survived the transfusion, but had extremely low blood pressure. She was on about eight different heart medications and not one would work - because the Pertussis was blocking it. We had the leading cardiologist and paediatric consultant in the room. After a whole day of the team working desperately...she went into cardiac arrest and died before our eyes at 6.45pm.

Why did she die? Because the Pertussis - not complications - actually attacked and killed her heart muscle and was probably attacking her brain. Every organ had failed, which is why she had so much fluid.

In other words...in cases like Dana's there is nothing that can be done. Wouldn't have mattered if we went two weeks earlier to hospital - the toxin could not be stopped.

And when a baby gets to the pnemounia stage they face the risk of collapsed/perforated lungs and ongoing relapses of pnemounia - and a lifetime of respiratory problems.

For small, unvaccinated newborns, this is not a simple childhood disease.

And why anyone would criticise a doctor of being bribed to vaccinate and intentionally harming children is beyond me. I have so much respect and admiration for the hoardes of dedicated doctors, nurses and emergency services personnel that tried desperately to save Dana. The intensive care team were devastated and stayed with us all night until we left.

In that intensive care room I saw with my very eyes why vaccination is so important. Surrounding me were babies with heart defects, organs on the outside of their bodies, cancer and other disorders. Many of their parents have not been out of hospital in months or years. They rely on all of us.

Plus, I saw the ferocity of a preventable illness. I can't say this any plainer - as Dave and I watched the blood transfusion I was wishing Dana had cancer, because she would have had a better chance of survival.

Unfortunately this, along with many other salient points, was edited out of the initial Sunday Night interview and the debate.

The program also edited out Professor McIntyre's discussion of the myths about ingredients - so I refer you all to this http://www.health.gov.au/internet/immunise/publishing.nsf/Content/uci-myths-guideprov

And if I hear it is 'just one baby' one more time..... Professor McIntyre told me off camera that 500 babies are hospitalised each year with Pertussis - 16 aged under 12 months have died since 1993. He was one of the kindest men I've ever met, telling me that I will never know how she was infected and wanting to help us. Pertussis is just so infectious, this is why we need children, adolescents and adults to be fully vaccinated (on time)- to reduce the risk.

Adults are a major problem because most of us did not know we needed a booster - so this reduces overall immunity.

There needs to be vigilant screening - because the person the doctor sent home with Panadol may have been the person that infected Dana and did not know.

And we need warnings. We got none and I have just had confirmed that the Area Health Service had a system breakdown - they were not applying the yellow warning stickers to the folders. I am meeting with them this weekend to go through this issue, as well as the fact that no-one in hospital, the GP, the schools or childcare warned us.

All I did was have Dana in hospital, have some friends and family over, drop my son to school one day and my daughter to preschool. That's it.

After Dana died, my nightmare is confirmed...it is rife in this area - at my son's school, at least six cases as my daughter's childcare. As a result, many women have just stayed at home with their newborns until they could get to the six week mark - and thank goodness this has kept them safe.

We are in hell and have just tried to warn people - so that no other family has to go through what we went through.

It is so sad - a simple yellow sticker would have saved Dana's life.

Sadder still is the general ignorance and insensitivity out there.