Feeling crappy

[cartersmom]

I am feeling pretty low atthe moment. My 13 month old son is sick...AGAIN. It seems that he is always sick with some sort of upper/lower respiratory infection. He has his first ear infection now as well. I was given a rx for antibiotics which I have not filled.

I have dealth with all of his illnesses ntaurally. I never medicate his fevers and do what I can to support his immune system (breastfeed, eat as healthfully as we can). When he is sick I give him SA...since he's always sick I feel like he is always taking it.

I feel despite learning what I can from here and other places I am fairly ill equipped for all this being a first time mom. I really thought that because he was not vaccinated he would rarely be ill. I have read so many threads on various boards from non vaxing moms who declare their children rarely get sick.

Is the fact that he is sick so often a reflection of a poor immune system? Or is it good that he is fighting off all these bugs now as this will make his immune system stronger down the road. (this is what I have been telling myself so I don't go mad).

Just feeling kind of bummed out and wonder if any other moms have constantly sick kids and how they handle it??

(sorry don't meant o be whiny :D :alien:)

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

I use hydrogen peroxide drops for ear aches, but don't know if you would get a 13 month old to co-operate.

The medical profession here states that any child which has had eight or more upper respiratory infections in the first 12 months of life, should be tested for immunodeficiencies.

I'm in that catagory of parent who had babies that didn't get sick to the degree that I remember, .... while breastfed ....until about the age of two. I've never worried about infections that are just nuisance value ... Our oldest got rubella at 11 months, and it was rubella, but that's about all in terms of significance, as a breastfed baby. They both had their first dose of measles at the age of two. Apart from immunable disease, any form of respiratory illness was a rarity in our house and usually so mild I don't recall it, and never needed to do anything about it. if you want me to find out, I can, because everything worse than one sneeze, got written into their plunket book. It would just mean hauling them out. I remember anything that resulted in me having to alter my life, and there weren't too many of those times.

To this day, tonsillitis is a mystery to me with the kids.

What follows is a generic think out aloud, and in no way has relevance to your life. it's just something i've observed over the years now that I'm an old grey nag...

We're all ill-equipped as first time mothers, partly because we weren't brought up in families who used natural means. My parents were of the "doctors have new magic bullets, so we don't need to know what your grandparents knew" breed.

But in talking to the older doctors who were first in practice in the days where babies didn't get vaccines, and continued to practice through to the time when they did, most of them said to me that in families who understood good nutrition, infections happened sometimes in bottle fed babies, but rarely in breastfed babies.

Even in the days when bottlefeeding was more common than breastfeeding, respiratory infections were relatively infrequent in bottle fed babies. they say that while they saw significantly higher rates of acute diseases, some of which there are vaccine for, they did not see the large numbers of children with allergies, asthma and autoimmune disorders they see today.

i was born in 1954 and had my first vaccine at 3 years of age.

I believe that part of what these doctors are talking about, is due to no vaccines as a very young baby, but also because there was a very structured parenting style then. Babies were pretty much kept at home until at least 6 months, whereas now, babies are an under-arm accessory toted everywhere, at any time of day or night from about three days after birth, expected to fit in as an accessory to normal life. Babies back then, had a much more structured day life. They were put out deliberately in the sun for at least 20 minutes a day... so many things were less stressful, and more baby-friendly back then.

I don't think parents eat as well as they did back then, now.... either.

But like I say, that's probably irrelevant in your situation.

In my situation, even with a younger child who teeters on the edge of an immunodeficiency classification, we have few infections. Why? I don't know. I ate well, took vitamin C and other supplements, but just got on with my life really. I was pretty much a social outcast because of my views, but also with a husband as a teaching principal, you didn't get involved in the rural community in any depth.

I've always been a loner anyway, so needing peer approval wasn't part of my core curriculum as an adult... :D and probably isn't in yours either.

Our youngest had his first experience of measles at two and with that came his first respiratory infection, but no earache.

He saved that up for his second bout of measles at four, along with another respiratory infection.

Our oldest had his first ear infection at the age of 26 at a time when he was run down, and hadn't had his feet still for about 5 years...

The youngest one with the border line immunodeficiency has actually had more infections, particularly sinus, since he's had a girl friend, than in all the years that went before!

None of which helps you much.

It's my way of saying that I don't know. But that we all feel ill-equipped the first time around. We're all different in the ways in which we cope with it.

[magical1]

My constantly sick baby (who is now a healthy 12 year old) drove me to drink! That is how I coped with it. Well that is my excuse anyway.

My situation was different to yours... he was fully vaccinated and bottle fed from six weeks. So I think he had very little good bacteria left in him and the bad guys had moved in and taken over. Plus he had a vaccine reaction and suffers from fluorosis.

The thing I found out is once I dealt with his gut health ie got him on a really good high quality probiotic, gave him a pure clean diet, things changed for him overnight. It took me nine years to figure this out! He no longer got bugs any more and his more chronic illness was dulled down. You may want to have a look into this relating to respiratory issues. I always had bronchitis as a kid and I am very fungal so look into this as well.

As soon as I dropped the ball on the probiotics he would get sick again.

I hate to say this because it doesn't help you right now... but this will become a distant memory to you one day. You may not see light at the end of the tunnel YET but you will.

[ema-adama]

:hug:

I do not have any words of wisdom or any solutions for you.

But I can totally relate to the overwhelming experience of being a first time mother.

And while this might not reassure you, I am sure your child would not be healthier if he was up to date with his shots. (which I am pretty sure you know ;))

Do you have the option of seeing a naturopath/homeopath/TCM doctor/etc? Someone who can sit down with you and try to pin point why your son is so susceptible to respiratory tract infections?

[cartersmom]

Thanks for everyone's support...Immunodeficiency?? Oy vey that scares me!!

Hilary writing down when he is sick and what symtoms is a great idea because as I sit and try and think about his illnesses, I can't really recall when and how long they lasted, how bad they were. Most of what he has had to date has been what I would categorize and fairly mild. Colds to varying degrees, some with coughs/chest congestion, some with just a snotty nose. Some I have treated with natural stuff/herbs that I have gotten through his ND (ema-adama - we do see an ND. I think we need to have a sit down and chat about why he is sick so much) and some have not even needed anything. Perhaps these have been just of nuisance value and I am overreacting. Perhaps if I had kept track I would see that it really isn't as bad as I remember???

The practicalities of life also factor in. I work full-time and he is in daycare. Its a small home day care and he is only in contact with maybe 6 other kids on a regular basis. I would love to stay home, but it is not financially possible. I have lost so many sick days already from keeping him home when he is sick, that I worry about having totake unpaid time off. Hubby's company is doing poorly and he is on a reduced work schedule. All in all financially things suck right now.

I know vaccinating him would have only compounded his problems and he would NOT be better off, however if he does have an immune deficiency of some kind doesn't that make him more suseptible to complications from VPD's were he to catch them? That does scare me.....

Magical...My son does take probiotics and has since birth almost. I have tried a few different brands. I had thought the one I am giving him was pretty good but I'm open to any suggestions! Also he is breastfed so that fact that he is getting ear infections and is sick so often baffles me frankly!

Sigh...I just don't know where to go from here. I guess a conversation with his ND would be a place to start. :(

[TanyaL]

I feel despite learning what I can from here and other places I am fairly ill equipped for all this being a first time mom. I really thought that because he was not vaccinated he would rarely be ill. I have read so many threads on various boards from non vaxing moms who declare their children rarely get sick.

Is the fact that he is sick so often a reflection of a poor immune system? Or is it good that he is fighting off all these bugs now as this will make his immune system stronger down the road. (this is what I have been telling myself so I don't go mad).

Just feeling kind of bummed out and wonder if any other moms have constantly sick kids and how they handle it??

(sorry don't meant o be whiny :D :alien:)

I'd say you're not ill-equipped, _I_ was ill-equipped with my first, and was blessed that it wasn't til my second that I _needed_ to make good decisions. It takes time to ride with everything--deal with a sick child, to try to prevent things from turning serious, and also figure out the pattern, so you can get ahead of the game.

My son (2nd child) got sick a lot--fall/winters were pretty constant illnesses, but it was periodic throughout the year. For my son, yes, it was a sign that his immune system is pretty pathetic. We have a lot of nutritional deficiencies, I didn't realize that _I_ was rundown til it was blatantly obvious. For us--I think we're very vitD deficient (despite living in a sunny climate), I've used vitamin A in high doses to treat 2 bacterial infections in my son, and we're all low in zinc as well. Plus the other stuff that's out of balance because when things get this out of whack (for us, I mean, not necessarily you), then everything's skewed.

The odd thing for us, and I know it's atypical, is that his gut, and mine, aren't as messed up as they should be. Looking into gut health and exploring that is important, but it may not be the answer.

I've heard of onion juice in the ear for EIs, plus cranial-sacral or chiropractic visits. CST stopped my daughter's EIs, and I didn't need to go back constantly, just a series of visits at the beginning, then nothing. That was back when she was 6-9 or 10 mos old, and now she's 5.5yo and hasn't had an EI in all that time, despite being in daycare til she was 3.5yo.




The medical profession here states that any child which has had eight or more upper respiratory infections in the first 12 months of life, should be tested for immunodeficiencies.

Oh my goodness. :eek: Do they mean uncomplicated (viral) colds? Not necessarily 8+ visits that are diagnosed as bacterial? My son had way more than 8 by the time he was a year, probably twice that.



Thanks for everyone's support...Immunodeficiency?? Oy vey that scares me!!

Hilary writing down when he is sick and what symtoms is a great idea because as I sit and try and think about his illnesses, I can't really recall when and how long they lasted, how bad they were. Most of what he has had to date has been what I would categorize and fairly mild. Colds to varying degrees, some with coughs/chest congestion, some with just a snotty nose. Some I have treated with natural stuff/herbs that I have gotten through his ND (ema-adama - we do see an ND. I think we need to have a sit down and chat about why he is sick so much) and some have not even needed anything. Perhaps these have been just of nuisance value and I am overreacting. Perhaps if I had kept track I would see that it really isn't as bad as I remember???

The practicalities of life also factor in. I work full-time and he is in daycare. Its a small home day care and he is only in contact with maybe 6 other kids on a regular basis. I would love to stay home, but it is not financially possible. I have lost so many sick days already from keeping him home when he is sick, that I worry about having totake unpaid time off. Hubby's company is doing poorly and he is on a reduced work schedule. All in all financially things suck right now.

I know vaccinating him would have only compounded his problems and he would NOT be better off, however if he does have an immune deficiency of some kind doesn't that make him more suseptible to complications from VPD's were he to catch them? That does scare me.....

Magical...My son does take probiotics and has since birth almost. I have tried a few different brands. I had thought the one I am giving him was pretty good but I'm open to any suggestions! Also he is breastfed so that fact that he is getting ear infections and is sick so often baffles me frankly!

Sigh...I just don't know where to go from here. I guess a conversation with his ND would be a place to start. :(

For my son, being in daycare or not didn't matter, and if it's helpful, I'm pretty sure my son doesn't have an actual immunodeficiency, he's just in bad shape nutritionally. He was just as sick his first fall/winter (6-9 mo) as he was his second at home with me (18-21mo), and the other illnesses the rest of the year weren't constant like they were in the winter, but he still got sick periodically.

The things we've done that have helped our health, vitC mostly prevented bacterial infections from setting in (except 2 times at the end of a long stretch of illnesses), and those times it turned out that high-dose vitA was what he needed to heal. We cut out our food allergens, gluten and dairy, and lower level issues with cashews and chocolate, before his 2nd winter, but he was just low on nutrients so I didn't see improvement from that. Chiropractic visits helped a couple things, you probably eat better than we used to, but we're also using a lot of supps to make up for the years of deficiencies.

The biggest thing that's made all this make sense to me is to look at my health history, the whole thing, and not just big stuff, but the trend, when things started happening and how they progressed for me. I had to think for a while, and I needed the help of a great healthcare provider to put the last, biggest, piece together, but at least for me, my kids' health makes sense in terms of my health, what I'm prone to and how my health history has gone, and what my husband is prone to.

[Sandra17]

That feeling of being ill-equipped as a parent? Especailly the first time round? I think it is a very important fear. It is a fear that drives us to seek more information, to think through the consequences of what we do, to try and improve how we parent. It does indeed prompt some bad days, some feelings of inadequacy, even self-loathing at times. But parenting is a huge job, a massive responsibility, and thus it does prompt deep emotional responses.

Our consumerist-driven world feeds into these legitimate, healthy fears and desires with it's injunctions to medicate our kids and buy endless gadgets for them. It is sad when our healthy fears get hijacked by big business (especially big pharma). But you are here, you are thinking and you are questioning. Which is WONDERFUL. It is such an important step on the path to self-knowledge and more confident parenting.

Have you tried kefir? if you can get some and get all of you eating/drinking it, then you have a more affordable way of getting probiotics into your child's body and your own. Their are other ways of supporting the gut flora through foods and some good books out there on the subject. I haven't yet got into sauerkraut and beet kvass (my one attempt was yucky and impotent) but they do good things also.

You've got home based childcare. I think that is a great step forward. You can build a genuine relationship with your child's carer. This is our situation and I am very confident that it is a good one for us. We adore our childminder and the other children who go to her are also part of our life.

You can, you are and you will be a great mother. Out of our deepest fears and despair come out most powerful choices. More than anything, I hope you have a lovely weekend and get to curl up on the bed or sofa with your baby boy and enjoy cuddling him.

[cartersmom]

That feeling of being ill-equipped as a parent? Especailly the first time round? I think it is a very important fear. It is a fear that drives us to seek more information, to think through the consequences of what we do, to try and improve how we parent. It does indeed prompt some bad days, some feelings of inadequacy, even self-loathing at times. But parenting is a huge job, a massive responsibility, and thus it does prompt deep emotional responses.

Our consumerist-driven world feeds into these legitimate, healthy fears and desires with it's injunctions to medicate our kids and buy endless gadgets for them. It is sad when our healthy fears get hijacked by big business (especially big pharma). But you are here, you are thinking and you are questioning. Which is WONDERFUL. It is such an important step on the path to self-knowledge and more confident parenting.

Have you tried kefir? if you can get some and get all of you eating/drinking it, then you have a more affordable way of getting probiotics into your child's body and your own. Their are other ways of supporting the gut flora through foods and some good books out there on the subject. I haven't yet got into sauerkraut and beet kvass (my one attempt was yucky and impotent) but they do good things also.

You've got home based childcare. I think that is a great step forward. You can build a genuine relationship with your child's carer. This is our situation and I am very confident that it is a good one for us. We adore our childminder and the other children who go to her are also part of our life.

You can, you are and you will be a great mother. Out of our deepest fears and despair come out most powerful choices. More than anything, I hope you have a lovely weekend and get to curl up on the bed or sofa with your baby boy and enjoy cuddling him.


Thank you!!

Actually the childcare lady has no idea we don't vaccinate and use alternative medicine! I think if she did, we may get tossed out.

My son seems to be worsening despite the various drops the ND had given him. I have a call in and hopefully he can sqeeze him in today. I just worry about pneumonia setting in :(

The more I read and think about my own family history, the more I think some if not all of his issues are allergy related.

My own family is HEAVILY allergic and has ashtma. DH's family also has some ashtma. My son has the classic allergic shiners under his eyes, just like me. He is constantly sneezing and rubbing his nose/eyes. Even when he is not acutely ill like he is now, he has chronic nasal congestion. He has skin issues which are no all that bad, but seem to be more mild/chronic.

I am thinking environmental allergies and possibel food allergies? I was off dairy and wheat for many months as was he (but I was still consuming goat milk products which now I'm not sure counts as No dairy???) but I'm not sure he was all that much better than he is now. I reintroduced dairy/wheat about 8 weeks ago and certainly do not see anything obvious to suggest that it is this, but I am just not sure anymore. All I do know is that I will move heaven and earth to get to the bottom of his issues and do whatever it takes to help him get to where he is healthy. As long as it takes. This is where my stubborn nature may actually be a bonus :D

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

This is where I'd just about force lipospheric vitamin C into him.

According to animal studies, you can't get pneumonia if you have enough vitamin C in your system and with him constantly that way, his body needs are probably profounding larger than a normal persons. Mine certainly are.

[cartersmom]

This is where I'd just about force lipospheric vitamin C into him.

According to animal studies, you can't get pneumonia if you have enough vitamin C in your system and with him constantly that way, his body needs are probably profounding larger than a normal persons. Mine certainly are.



I give him SA and quite a lot of it. (upwards of 3,000 mg right now) Until he gets the poops and then I back off a bit. Is it that that the SA is just not potent enough for his needs? I have held off on the Lipopheric C because it is just so expensive, but at this point Ill try anything!! I have ordered it from Liv-on labs. How to dose for a baby though?? It says each packet is 1,000mg of Vit c from sodium ascorbate. So what is this equal to in terms of regular SA? Would I give him the entire packet? The directions say to give 1-2 packets/day but this is for an adult.

An update: I took him to the ND on Friday and he was concerned enough about the fluid in his lungs that he felt antibiotics were warrented....Ugh. I feel like crap giving him that stuff, but I feel like I need to trust somebody. He said he rarely suggests antibiotics, but he was so filled with fluid and pneumonia was a concern and he had not responded to the natural things and supplements that he has in the past so here I am...feeling about as crapass as one can feel. ..and second guessing him, myself and everything. I have doubled his dose of probiotics and am going to get some liposperic C. I wish I had a lifetime of experience and knowledge with trial and error under my belt as you do!

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

I give him SA and quite a lot of it. (upwards of 3,000 mg right now) Until he gets the poops and then I back off a bit. Is it that that the SA is just not potent enough for his needs? I have held off on the Lipopheric C because it is just so expensive, but at this point Ill try anything!! I have ordered it from Liv-on labs. How to dose for a baby though??

That's very tricky, because it's vile tasting. My suggestion would be to take it yourself. Since it creates 20 times more Vitamin C intracellularly than sodium ascorbate does, by bypassing the digestive system, theoretically more might get through to him. What does the digestive system do to sodium ascorbate? I've not seen any research on that. One of the things vitamin C does, it to neutralize toxins, and because the digestive system is absolutely loaded with both gram negative and gram positive bacteria which pour out toxins by the mini-truck load, I often wonder if the reason SA is aid not to get through into the system is because so much of it is used to neutralize the crap in people's intestines first before it does anything else... and gut rubbish will vary, person to person.


It says each packet is 1,000mg of Vit c from sodium ascorbate. So what is this equal to in terms of regular SA? because it gets through bypassing the gut, approximately 20 times the amoung gets through.[/quote] Would I give him the entire packet? The directions say to give 1-2 packets/day but this is for an adult. [/quote]I'd say it's trial and error, but as you say, first you have to work out how to get it into him.


An update: I took him to the ND on Friday and he was concerned enough about the fluid in his lungs that he felt antibiotics were warrented....Ugh. I feel like crap giving him that stuff, but I feel like I need to trust somebody.

Why not trust yourself? Why is it that people outside your house are to be trusted first?


He said he rarely suggests antibiotics, but he was so filled with fluid and pneumonia was a concern and he had not responded to the natural things and supplements that he has in the past so here I am...feeling about as crapass as one can feel. ..and second guessing him, myself and everything.and he has nothing to suggest, such as postural drainage, silk corn tea, and a whole host of other things? NAC? Has he suggested that?


I have doubled his dose of probiotics and am going to get some liposperic C. I wish I had a lifetime of experience and knowledge with trial and error under my belt as you do!

My life hasn't ended yet my dear..., and at times, I've only just scratched the surface.

[cartersmom]

[QUOTE=Momtezuma Tuatara;7606]That's very tricky, because it's vile tasting. My suggestion would be to take it yourself. Since it creates 20 times more Vitamin C intracellularly than sodium ascorbate does, by bypassing the digestive system, theoretically more might get through to him. What does the digestive system do to sodium ascorbate? I've not seen any research on that. One of the things vitamin C does, it to neutralize toxins, and because the digestive system is absolutely loaded with both gram negative and gram positive bacteria which pour out toxins by the mini-truck load, I often wonder if the reason SA is aid not to get through into the system is because so much of it is used to neutralize the crap in people's intestines first before it does anything else... and gut rubbish will vary, person to person.

because it gets through bypassing the gut, approximately 20 times the amoung gets through.


Im hopeful he will take the Lispheric c even though it tastes bad, he is fairly agreeable about nasty tasting things...

As for trusting myself, it just seems that I have this life in my hands. I do not know much about herbs and other alternative things. I am learning and have a good basic foundation I think, however I also think if I try and "play" doctor to him, I may do harm. I don't know if a particular herb or supplement is appropraite for a young baby. I try and seek info on the web, but most of it is conflicting. I get overwhelmed with all of the options and possibilities out there and find it helpful to have an "expert" there for advice and guidance...hey Hilary do you want to move in with me ;) :D.

The ND has had him on various remedies and things over the months, some have helped at times, other times not so much. NAC has not been something he has mentioned. I will ask him about it. Now it seems that he has a yeast problem....a systemic one Im sure and I wouldn't be at all surprised if many of his issues were related to this rather than allergies or maybe a bit of both. Im sure he has gut damage...all from my crappy genes and a terrible birth. I can only imagine how much worse off he would be if I had vaccinated him. I have this feeling deep in my bones that it would have caused serious harm, beyond the chronic issues that so many kids have....Its just a feeling. I guess I am ahead of the game though in trying to figure out what's up now when he is very young and try and fix it, rather than when he is older. It seems many parents find themselves trying to sort out these same kind of issues when their children are school aged.

Hilary if you have only just scratched the surface than is there any hope for the rest of us? ;)

God I'm tired :shrug:

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

I'd rather have just scratched the surface than nothing. What's scarey is when I find out I know more than doctors do. I have no choice but to trust myself.

I never every believe that anything is irreversible. I believe all things can be fixed or made to work better.

Candida is a pain, but with me, if my B-vitamin levels are low, then I can get mild thrush. Anyone with boils should know they are folic acid and B-vitamin deficient too. Sure, Staph A might be the supposed "cause" but they got that way, because the defences crumbled owing to missing building blocks. Same with thrush, even in babies.

Evict that feeling in your bones. Nothing will change until you believe that every problem is a successful solution waiting to be found.

Attitude is everything. Were that not the case, I'd be dead long ago.

[cartersmom]

I'd rather have just scratched the surface than nothing. What's scarey is when I find out I know more than doctors do. I have no choice but to trust myself.

I never every believe that anything is irreversible. I believe all things can be fixed or made to work better.

Candida is a pain, but with me, if my B-vitamin levels are low, then I can get mild thrush. Anyone with boils should know they are folic acid and B-vitamin deficient too. Sure, Staph A might be the supposed "cause" but they got that way, because the defences crumbled owing to missing building blocks. Same with thrush, even in babies.

Evict that feeling in your bones. Nothing will change until you believe that every problem is a successful solution waiting to be found.

Attitude is everything. Were that not the case, I'd be dead long ago.


Quite right about attitude! However that feeling (which I chalk up to my intuition) is what got me researching vaccines and questioning things in the first place so I want to hang on to that! It's not that I have a feeling that I won't or can't find a solution. It's more that I feel if I had vaccinated my son, that he would have had more serious issues.

I can be one stubborn lady and I will absolutely find a way to fix and improve any problem that my babe may have and I won't give up or rest until I do. I guess that's just being a mom :p