Optimizing Immune System of Formula Fed Baby

[macntia]

Hi,

I am after some advice as to what I can do to optimize the immune system/health of my 7 week old daughter.

She was born by caesarian 2 weeks early due to medical reasons, and was given formula by hospital staff immediately following birth due to low blood sugars. She was given colostrum as often as possible, and she received breast milk for another week - due to circumstances beyond my control she has been formula fed ever since.

During my pregnancy, she was exposed to antidepressants for the whole nine months (I have to take them for life), as well as a course of antibiotics, and a lot of panandol (I suffered from pelvic instability, and was told to take the maximum dose).

My husband and I are still on the fence about vaccinating, but would prefer to immunize homeopathically. If we did have her immunized it would be done selectively and spaced out.

My eldest daughter who is almost 4 was also brought up on formula, as I don't have a lot of success with breast feeding, and has received all of her vaccinations to date (I didn't know back then what I know now!). But I dont feel comfortable with continuing on the vaccination road.

What can I do to strengthen their immune systems?

Thanks in advance!!!!!!!

[Sandra17]

I don't have the scientific knowledge that many do on this board. But I do want to thank you for coming on here and asking this question. I know from my own struggles that it is challenging to ask for help about immune system strengthening when breastfeeding hasn't happened.

But there are probiotics which you can add to her formula. I was advised about them when pregnant with my second child (the mother takes them if the baby is breastfed) by a paediatirc allergy specialist.

You can choose not to give her panadol or to limit her access to it much more than standard advice.

Hopefully others can give you more substantive suggestions.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Do you have a healthy friend who is breastfeeding, who would be willing to express for you? I did that for a friend of mine. I also refused to be paid for it, but that was my personal choice. I did however, accept some petrol vouchers, because at the beginning I was going to her place every day, and also accepted vegetables from their garden, as I was much hungrier feeding two, than just one...

To me, this is what community is about. And even the world health organisation say this. Their classification for acceptable baby feeding is:

1) The mother's milk.
2) the mother's milk expressed.
3) Someone else's milk.
4) Formula.

[Serephina]

I wonder if relactation is a possibility given that your baby is only a few weeks old? If not then as MT said expressed breast milk (if you can get it) will be far superior to formula.

I'd also second Sandra's advice about the baby probiotics for formula fed infants.

Homeoprophylaxis is pretty controversial. Frankly I haven't seen enough evidence to be convinced of it's efficacy and wouldn't waste my money. But that's just me ;)

[magical1]

I couldn't breast feed either of my babies. I cried and cried when I realised that this was a reality.

Where were you MT (or someone like you) when I needed you? I would have done everything in my power to get them breast milk especially in hindsight.

I learnt the hard way because I didn't ask anyone the questions you are asking. So first of all good on you.

My first was a ceaser, formula fed, fully vaccinated and man did I pay for those "simple" "accepted" medical interventions with his happiness and health.

If I had my time again.... well first of all I would be adding in a probiotic, not using ANY tap water with formula (both my boys have fluorosis and it is well documented that the first year is when they are most suseptible). there is NO fluoride in breast milk for a very good reason.

As far as a ceaser goes I would be getting your baby to a good cranial osteopath.

With vaccines I would avoid in your case for gut health and overall wellbeing at all costs. Especially MMR. The reason I say this is that is where things really started going down hill for my little man. I don't want to give you scary stories to freak you out. I will say though do your homework and start it right now.

I don't go for the "have to be on anti depressants for life" route that the Drs spin. But lets focus on your baby and if you want to talk about how you can get off the drugs we can go there when you are ready.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Ideally, breastmilk, from somewhere :D

In terms of formula, the first thing you can do, is put a small pinch of sodium ascorbate into every bottle, as well as probiotics. I don't know what sort of probiotics there are where you are, or what is best to go into formula, but others might. I'd also put a few drops of fish oil, and unless the baby is getting 20 minutes of full body sun a day, some drops of vitamin D3.

What magical says about tap water. Also the amount of chlorine and other flocculants in it, puts strain on the kidneys. (Now you know why all hospitals , at least in NZ, have reverse osmosis filters on all their water - after all, it wouldn't do to knock off all your dialysis patients would it?) I was very surprised when our local district council told me that tap water should never be used to make up formula. The plunket nurse nearly fainted when I told her that, ... she didn't know. Very few mothers do know.

What Sephina said about relactating. Is it worth considering? My friend had hepatitis B, and she relactated four months after stopping feeding. As well as contending with huge breast abscesses and other problems. she fed her son for 18 months after that.

I know you say you had difficulties breastfeeding. I was told I wouldn't be able to, and when I did, then I was told I might make six weeks if I was lucky. 18 months later I'm being told that it's indecent to breastfeed toddler :rolleyes: Telling me it wasn't possible, was probably the spur I needed to prove them wrong.

[macntia]

Sandra17 - It is really hard when you aren't able to breastfeed knowing that your baby is not getting all the immune boosting goodness (as well as the other benefits). And its hard not to feel like crap when you know breast feeding mothers can do so much in terms improving their breast milk for the benefit of their baby.

It is a question I just had to ask, and thankfully for this site I have got some answers as to what I can do to improve the situation, rather than just being told formula is fine, and so many people have grown up on the stuff etc. As for the probiotics, I am currently trying to get hold of some that are only avaliable through natural health practitioners, containing the same flora that breast fed babies have in their digestive systems.

Serephina & Hilary - I am unfortunately not in a position to get hold of breast milk, and the descision to formula feed was not made lightly, and was even suggested by the lactation consultant as the best way to go, after working with her to try and make breast feeding successful. Hilary, it was very kind of you to do something so personal for another mother. I recently heard that someone is trying to set up a breast milk bank in my home town, but as I haven't looked into it, I will assume that it will be accessable for prem babies only. As for the homeoprophylaxis, have you heard of Dr Isaac Golden from Australia? He is a Homeopath who specialises in Homeoprophylaxis, and has through his own clients shown this method of immunisation to have an efficacy of around 90% for all diseases immunised against. But as you can tell since I am asking I am still somewhat unsure if this is the way to go, and am seeking as much information about other peoples experiences as possible.

Magical1 - If only we knew back then what we know now (or in my case, learning). I am currently using tap water for my baby's bottles, which thankfully is not fluoridated (however my council is in the process of trying to get it put into our water supply), but of course still contains all the other crap and tastes disgusting! I would love a RO water filter, but they are quite expensive, and while I do have another water filter that just uses charcoal cartridges I dont know if it would make much difference. Would tank water be a better option?

I have taken my baby to a chiropracter who specialises in babies and children to have her skull looked at, because throughout my pregnancy, the ultrasounds kept showing up that the baby had a narrow head - thankfully it is perfect!

I would like to hear about your experiences with the MMR if you would share them with me, and I'm happy for you to email me privately if you'd prefer.

As for the antidepressants, I take them because I have Obsessive Compulsive Disorder as well as suffering from anxiety. While taking medication is not the ideal, it does enable me to lead a "normal" life and to be a mother to my children - without them I can not function in day to day life. I also suffered severe depression after the recent birth of my baby, and am just starting to get myself back on track. For now I will take them and concerntrate on my family, and perhaps in the future try to find alternative ways of dealing with it.

Hilary -thanks for the advice on what to put in the formula. The formula I use already has omega 3s in it, and I'm working on getting top quality probiotics.

What do you mean by the 20 mins of full body sun?

How much vit. C should I be giving my 3 year old on a daily basis? She's great at eating fruit, but not good with the vegies?

[TanyaL]

Maybe do some reading on zinc and depression? I can't know your situation, but I think my depression and anxiety, and my parents' and grandmothers' was related, in part, to zinc deficiency, and since zinc's so important for immune function, it's something to look into.

I'd never dis anti-depressants and the like for dealing with the situation, when I've used them, they were effective and made me functional, but now I've come to the point of figuring out what's going on, nutritionally, in my family that we've been low on quite a few things for a few generations now, and I don't think I'm ever going to be depressed again. But as a coping mechanism, it's better than the alternative!

You may want to have your own vitamin D tested as well, to have a better idea of where your little one is starting out, and to get yourself to a good place if you're not there already. My son just turned 3yo and it took that long for me to realize that he probably started out very deficient, and I think it was a factor in how often he's been sick.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

It is a question I just had to ask, and thankfully for this site I have got some answers as to what I can do to improve the situation, rather than just being told formula is fine, and so many people have grown up on the stuff etc. As for the probiotics, I am currently trying to get hold of some that are only avaliable through natural health practitioners, containing the same flora that breast fed babies have in their digestive systems.As time goes on perhaps we can add more suggestions. The fact is that formula isn't poison. It enables children to survive. it feeds children. it's "down" side is that it's not the "immune" system that breast milk is, and it's that side that the baby misses out on. But lots of babies have been fed formula and survived. There are more important things in life, than getting upset over something you can't do.

You're doing the right thing by trying to figure out what you can do.


Serephina & Hilary - I am unfortunately not in a position to get hold of breast milk, and the descision to formula feed was not made lightly, and was even suggested by the lactation consultant as the best way to go, after working with her to try and make breast feeding successful. Hilary, it was very kind of you to do something so personal for another mother.

There was, and still is, no breast milk bank anywhere near here. In this country, to do this, it's really a case of becoming friends, and doing it for the sake of the baby. It takes someone very committed to do it.

I've always believed in walking the talk, not talking the talk. So when my friend had problems, I was prepared to do it for however long it took. The only problems I had with it, was being starving hungry in the middle of the night, and we had to tail his feeding down gradually for my sake, as I was starting to walk around like an overloaded fit-to-bust freisan cow, which was very uncomfortable.

I was very glad to finish up, and have my own space back, but what's four months really?


I recently heard that someone is trying to set up a breast milk bank in my home town, but as I haven't looked into it, I will assume that it will be accessable for prem babies only. I don't see why it should be. and also, premie babies.... they should only have milk from their own mothers. Why? because the breastmilk of mothers of premie babies is markedly and significantly different to that of full term babies. for example, the levels of osteoprotegerin in breastmilk of mothers of premies is way way higher than in a full term baby. osteoprotegerin orchestrates good hone development, helps develop antibody responses and regulates B-cell maturation. There are also other compounds in breasmilk of premie babies mothers which aren't in full term mothers.

So how is it that the mother of a premie baby has markedly different breastmilk? I don't know. In the absense of a decent answer, my answer is that God knows, and designs our bodies to know what our babies need.

So any mother of a premie baby should be given all the help possible, because HER milk will meet the nutritional needs of her baby much better than the breast milk of a full term baby's mother.


As for the homeoprophylaxis, have you heard of Dr Isaac Golden from Australia? He is a Homeopath who specialises in Homeoprophylaxis, and has through his own clients shown this method of immunisation to have an efficacy of around 90% for all diseases immunised against.I've head about this, but I've never seen evidence of proof of the 90%. How does he measure that? Antibodies? How many kids get the diseases? Given that the likelihood of tetanus is around 1.1 per 100,000 before vaccines, 90% seems a whacky sort of figure....

The theory of it makes no sense to me. It's certainy not "homeopathic" in the classical sense. You won't get the greats like Vithoulkas advocating that.
But as you can tell since I am asking I am still somewhat unsure if this is the way to go, and am seeking as much information about other peoples experiences as possible.Ah, well I'm totally knowledge deficient :giggle:since because I think it's a placebo to alleviate parent's fears, I've never tried it.


Magical1 - If only we knew back then what we know now (or in my case, learning). I am currently using tap water for my baby's bottles, which thankfully is not fluoridated (however my council is in the process of trying to get it put into our water supply), but of course still contains all the other crap and tastes disgusting! I would love a RO water filter, but they are quite expensive, and while I do have another water filter that just uses charcoal cartridges I dont know if it would make much difference. Would tank water be a better option?We installed tanks, and have a closed system. We fill them once a year, scrub down the roof, let it rain for three hours, and then run the water through my unpatented filtering system of three layers of old fashioned, unused panty hose :cool:


I have taken my baby to a chiropracter who specialises in babies and children to have her skull looked at, because throughout my pregnancy, the ultrasounds kept showing up that the baby had a narrow head - thankfully it is perfect!
Good. :D
[qoute]I would like to hear about your experiences with the MMR if you would share them with me, and I'm happy for you to email me privately if you'd prefer. [/quote]Again, I'm knowledge deprived on that one :D


As for the antidepressants, I take them because I have Obsessive Compulsive Disorder as well as suffering from anxiety. While taking medication is not the ideal, it does enable me to lead a "normal" life and to be a mother to my children - without them I can not function in day to day life. I also suffered severe depression after the recent birth of my baby, and am just starting to get myself back on track. For now I will take them and concerntrate on my family, and perhaps in the future try to find alternative ways of dealing with it. Do a google search, or look in Abebooks.com for books by Dr Carl Pfeiffer, like "Mentals and Elementals". He was a doctor who treated so many of these kinds of things with nutrition and/or supplements. His books have very good explanations, and I just wish that nutritional treatment was standard practice alongside pharma-tillringing...


What do you mean by the 20 mins of full body sun?In the old days, it was standard practice for babies to be put in the sun daily either naked or just in nappies. vitamin D and all :D


How much vit. C should I be giving my 3 year old on a daily basis? She's great at eating fruit, but not good with the vegies? she may not need any. does she bruise easily (sign of vitamin C shortage) Does she have very red gums? do her teeth come through with difficulty? If so, then she might need a bit, but how much is a lottery really...

I only learned with my two, by trial and error, and generally, they didn't get that much except in winter, or when sick...

[macntia]

Maybe do some reading on zinc and depression? I can't know your situation, but I think my depression and anxiety, and my parents' and grandmothers' was related, in part, to zinc deficiency, and since zinc's so important for immune function, it's something to look into.

I'd never dis anti-depressants and the like for dealing with the situation, when I've used them, they were effective and made me functional, but now I've come to the point of figuring out what's going on, nutritionally, in my family that we've been low on quite a few things for a few generations now, and I don't think I'm ever going to be depressed again. But as a coping mechanism, it's better than the alternative!

You may want to have your own vitamin D tested as well, to have a better idea of where your little one is starting out, and to get yourself to a good place if you're not there already. My son just turned 3yo and it took that long for me to realize that he probably started out very deficient, and I think it was a factor in how often he's been sick.

At the moment the most important thing for me is to be "happy" and functional because if I'm not it impacts on everyone around me, not just myself. I will definately have a look at your suggestions, so thanks heaps for taking the time to reply.

[macntia]

The fact is that formula isn't poison. It enables children to survive. it feeds children. it's "down" side is that it's not the "immune" system that breast milk is, and it's that side that the baby misses out on.
You are right about that, but it still doesn't stop the guilt! DD2's formula contains nucleotides which are suppose to help the immune system (I dont know much about them).


In terms of formula, the first thing you can do, is put a small pinch of sodium ascorbate into every bottle, as well as probiotics.
I have ordered her the following probiotics- BabyBiotic 0+yrs® is specifically designed to help maintain healthy digestive function in neonates, infants and children. It may assist in the management of allergies, provide relief from the symptoms of eczema, and strengthen gastrointestinal immunity. BabyBiotic 0+yrs® combines Bifidobacterium breve, B. infantis and B. bifidum - three of the most common species of bifidobacteria present in the gastrointestinal tract (GIT) of healthy breastfed newborns and infants.



Each Dose (2g) Contains:

Bifidobacterium bifidum1 billion CFU*
Bifidobacterium breve1 billion CFUBifidobacterium infantis 1 billion CFU
Lactobacillus fermentum 500 million CFU
Lactobacillus rhamnosus
500 million CFU
Inulin1.9 g
*CFU = colony forming units

I am just waiting for them to arrive. I have also started her on the Sodium Ascorbate, but at the moment she has become quite ill with some kind of bug, so I am giving her large pinches in each bottle which she is struggling to drink at the moment.


I don't see why it should be. and also, premie babies.... they should only have milk from their own mothers. Why? because the breastmilk of mothers of premie babies is markedly and significantly different to that of full term babies. for example, the levels of osteoprotegerin in breastmilk of mothers of premies is way way higher than in a full term baby. osteoprotegerin orchestrates good hone development, helps develop antibody responses and regulates B-cell maturation. There are also other compounds in breasmilk of premie babies mothers which aren't in full term mothers.

This is really interesting, I had no idea of this so thanks for sharing that information. How do you hold so much information in your brain? It must be really heavy to carry around :giggle:.


I've head about this, but I've never seen evidence of proof of the 90%. How does he measure that?
Here is some info regarding Isaac Golden and his research with a link for a pdf file outlining his study, including his 90% eficacy rate.
New Research into the Long-Term Effects
of Disease Prevention


Parents are advised that the ground-breaking research into the use of natural, non toxic methods of immunisation begun in 1986, and extended in 2001, has been completed in 2004. The first results of the research have been published and are now available. . (http://users.netconnect.com.au/~homstudy/publications/index.htm)

The research has been undertaken by Dr Isaac Golden, one of Australia's most experienced homoeopathic practitioners and teachers. Isaac has been in practice since 1984. In 1990 he founded the Australasian College of Hahnemannian Homoeopathy which offers accredited correspondence courses in homoeopathy. He was President of the Victorian branch of the Australian Homoeopathic Association from 1992-1998, and in 1999 was awarded the Association's Distinguished Service Award. Isaac completed his Doctoral research at the Graduate School of Integrative Medicine at Swinburne University in Melbourne.

The research which has been completed comprised two parts:
1. A National Health Survey - this research studied children between 5 and 10 years of age. Through a questionnaire completed by parents, measures of each child's general immune competence (using the diseases of asthma, chronic eczema, chronic ear infections, allergies and behavioral problems) were compared to the method of disease prevention which the child used, including vaccination, homoeopathy, general constitutional treatment, no method at all, or a combination of all of these. The relative safety and effectiveness of the different immunisation methods studied was then calculated .

2. A Twenty Year Clinical Study - using responses from parents whose children used Isaac's 5 year homoeoprophylactic program for disease prevention from 1985 to 2004. 2,342 responses have been collected, each one covering one year of a child's life. The effectiveness and safety of the homoeopathic option to vaccination is fully discussed, and the actual comments by parents are reported .
The purpose of this research has been threefold:

1. To provide parents with objective data on which to base what is often the most difficult health decision a parent must make - how to safely and effectively immunize their child.

2. To provide data on which health professionals can base their advice to parents.

3. To provide both State and Federal governments with data that shows that vaccination is not the only valid option to prevent targeted infectious diseases. In fact the doctoral thesis submitted by Isaac concluded that the best possible system would involve a dual system of immunisation, where parents were freely able to choose either vaccination or homoeoprophylaxis. Figures clearly showed that this would increase the national coverage against targeted diseases (increase herd immunity), and lower the national incidence of certain chronic illnesses, such as asthma and eczema, as well as reduce behavioral problems associated with vaccination.
For interested readers, the following article gives a summary of Isaac's research - enough to show readers whether they would like to pursue their study of the option further .

Should we protect our children against infectious diseases? Isaac's work shows that protection against mild diseases is probably unnecessary, that protection against severe diseases is probably wise, but either way it should be the parent's decision what is best for their own child. Against serious diseases, such as meningococcal disease, the problem for many parents has been that whilst vaccination increases the level of protection, it also increases the risk of long-term chronic disease. Isaac shows how homoeopathic immunisation solves this dilemma by providing a comparable level of protection without any long-term health risks.
http://http://www.homstudy.net/research/Isaac-Golden-Research.pdf


Do a google search, or look in Abebooks.com for books by Dr Carl Pfeiffer, like "Mentals and Elementals". He was a doctor who treated so many of these kinds of things with nutrition and/or supplements. His books have very good explanations, and I just wish that nutritional treatment was standard practice alongside pharma-tillringing...
Thanks for the heads up, I will have a look.


In the old days, it was standard practice for babies to be put in the sun daily either naked or just in nappies. vitamin D and all :D

Over the past few months I have learnt from various sources that the sun isn't this large scary cancer causing ball that we are lead to believe, however it is freezing over here at the moment, there is no way I could put my girls outside without clothes on - we get a great amount of natural sunlight throughout our house on a sunny day, could I put them in front of a window, or does the glass deminish the healthy effects of the sun???


she may not need any. does she bruise easily (sign of vitamin C shortage) Does she have very red gums? do her teeth come through with difficulty? If so, then she might need a bit, but how much is a lottery really...

She gets some pretty good bruises from riding her bike (she's off the training wheels) cause she goes like a bat out of hell, and stacks it pretty hard :eek:. She has been quite ill of late and has had swabs sent away for whooping cough, and she's vaccinated :eyeroll: (yes she's on antibiotics :(, but if the test comes back positive I'll be finding a plane somewhere if it means begging for money for her and my baby!) although I dont think it's whooping cough ( I hope not anyway). I have tried to supplement her with the Vit C but she says it's yuck and wont take it, plus she's not drinking or eating a lot anyway.

Thanks heaps for all your assistance.

[Sandra17]

How are you offering her the vitamin C? I dissolve the sodium ascorbate powder in orange juice and it is undetectable like that. Another friend here puts vit C powder in her children's sippy bottles so they get little bits during the day as they get thirsty.

[macntia]

Hi Sandra17,

I have been putting it in orange juice as well, but she caught me and carried on that the juice tasted yuck. Perhaps I put too much in, it had a slightly salty aftertaste.

Thanks

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

This is really interesting, I had no idea of this so thanks for sharing that information. How do you hold so much information in your brain? It must be really heavy to carry around :giggle:.Please don't be deluded about the capacity of my brain to carry stuff around. The only reason that piece of information is still there, is because I did a talk to doctors just over a month ago. There will come a point where it will float to the horizon and drop off the edge :p

However, I will know where, in the paper filing system, to retrieve the information :cool:




Over the past few months I have learnt from various sources that the sun isn't this large scary cancer causing ball that we are lead to believe, however it is freezing over here at the moment, there is no way I could put my girls outside without clothes on - we get a great amount of natural sunlight throughout our house on a sunny day, could I put them in front of a window, or does the glass deminish the healthy effects of the sun??? Unfortunately, glass blocks the UV which creates vitamin D. There's something else that glass does ... which I've forgotten :giggle: that must be in the 'temporary files' that were tossed over the horizon recently. But if you google it, you might find it. :D


She has been quite ill of late and has had swabs sent away for whooping cough, and she's vaccinated :eyeroll: (yes she's on antibiotics :(, Your doctor stuck her on antibiotics, having no idea what sort of infection she had? But assuming it's whooping cough??? which means it's likely to be erythromycin, which napalms gut flora. Geez, louise, I'd be rarking him/her up something frothy...